CPMS30V only 45% > than 420HC

S

Silverdagger

Joined
Dec 18, 2006
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I have knifes of all blade steels. I just noticed that Buck's CPMS30V is only 45 greater than the lowly 420HC which costs much less.

http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ...&parentType=index&indexId=cat20891&hasJS=true


Save your money boys, for only 45% better edge retention. Maybe Sypderco should start making some good 420HC and getting us some more affordable knifes. No wonder Buck resists changing from 420HC for the most part, using it on their most expensive knives. It is good stuff, almost as good as the most expensive stainless steels.
 
what?

these are 2 completely different steel-grades. and even if its correct, 45% better edge retention there are lots of more aspects to consider here.

a ferrari is also only 45% faster than a volvo. i still prefer the ferrari
 
Danbo said:
45% is a pretty good margin. Your point is?
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Point is, is that if you can cut 100 12 inch slices with a 420HC, you'll only get 145 slices out of the S30V.

Not worth the extra bucks, if you half way know how to sharpen your knife and do so regularly. Plus apparently the 420HC is stronger or less prone to chipping, as well as more rust resistant. I'm suprised that the best of stainless is not much better than what is considered a low end stainless.
 
CPMS30V has 3 times the carbon content and loads more vanadium and molybdenum. Vanadium improves the grain of the steel and molybdenum increases hardness. Chromium levels are about the same. CPMS30V doesn't contain any Manganese which makes a blade tougher, but proper heat treating has more of an effect in this regard. The raw material and manufacturing of the steel obviously increase the price. But a 45% increase in edge retention is a big difference to me.
 
Having used both, I would say that the 45% is VERY suspect. But even at that, we strive to produce the best product we can. Any increase is worth while. Antthing that is almost half again better in performance is well worth the effort. Look at cryo heat treat. It will only give apx 2 t 4% better performance. So why do we do it. I think the answer is obvious. Some people just lide performance. In my drag racing days, we would spend large sums of money and a lot of work for even a one percent edge. It was about winning and loosing. Not to mention bragging rights. Too see one of my old raceing buddies top ride go here. This is the Jet Car my wife and I were hired to campain. Knife making won out! Mike and Manuela http://www.kcjonesracing.com/cannonball.html
 
Silverdagger said:
I have knifes of all blade steels. I just noticed that Buck's CPMS30V is only 45 greater than the lowly 420HC which costs much less.

http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ...&parentType=index&indexId=cat20891&hasJS=true


Save your money boys, for only 45% better edge retention. Maybe Sypderco should start making some good 420HC and getting us some more affordable knifes. No wonder Buck resists changing from 420HC for the most part, using it on their most expensive knives. It is good stuff, almost as good as the most expensive stainless steels.
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I'm just gonna hazard a wild guess here... You don't own any S30V knives, do you?

How about any in ATS-34/154cm?
 
I'm with ya on this one. It just is't that big of a deal in the real world!!
But, and this is a big but, on this forum we dont want the real world;)
 
Well my Native was $45 and I can not think of any pocket knife Buck sells for $45 that I would take over my Native.
 
enderwiggin said:
I'm just gonna hazard a wild guess here... You don't own any S30V knives, do you?

How about any in ATS-34/154cm?
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I have a Wallyworld Native. It's nice. Did come from the factory with a ding in the blade. Loses razor edge as fast or faster than 440A or AUS8 or 420HC. Not sure if it outlasts them, but figure it does.

Take Leeks for instance. You could buy roughly two 440A Leeks for the price of one S30V. I'll bet they'll last twice as long or more, maybe three times, if 440A really is better than 420 HC. Plus you'll get an extra knife.

I'm beginning to think that's a better deal. You can have more knifes that last longer when combining the workload, if you don't want to say you have the best of stainless.

I see why jackknife one time stated if he didn't use carbon steel, he would use a low end stainless. It is easy to sharpen and almost lasts as long as the best of stainless.
 
BRASMAN said:
Well my Native was $45 and I can not think of any pocket knife Buck sells for $45 that I would take over my Native.
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A $45 Buck Duke from SMKW would crush any Native. One is new age cheap plastic with good steel, the other is Old world tech with the knife with a slightly inferior steel. That said, they are similar sized but different knifes. Either way, if 420HC will cut 100 slices, you'll only get 145 out of S30V
 
Silverdagger said:
Point is, is that if you can cut 100 12 inch slices with a 420HC, you'll only get 145 slices out of the S30V.

Not worth the extra bucks, if you half way know how to sharpen your knife and do so regularly. Plus apparently the 420HC is stronger or less prone to chipping, as well as more rust resistant. I'm suprised that the best of stainless is not much better than what is considered a low end stainless.
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Well, this is nothing new, even though it may disturb some believes.

Do you know, if Bucks 420HC really comes with 58HRC?

If the so called low end steel grades would come with higher hardness than 56 - 57 HRC, i guess at the point of 58 to 59 HRC the balance of properties, toughness to edge retention, would be better compared to high end steel grades.
 
Blop said:
Well, this is nothing new, even though it may disturb some believes.

Do you know, if Bucks 420HC really comes with 58HRC?
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I really do not know the answer to that or have a way to test it, but trust a company as well respected as Buck.
 
sherlockbonez said:
Wow, do you believe everything Cabela's tells you?
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No, nor do I believe everything on internet message boards. It seems to me that maybe the old 440C Buck used might be as just about as good or better than the S30V they now have.

I would assume that Cabelas has more to lose by providing incorrect information than a typical poster here, with notable exceptions of those who are in the industry. Also, I would assume they got their info straight from Buck.
 
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