CPMS30V only 45% > than 420HC

The statement is meaningless as they have not said how they measured it. The edge retention difference will also change from push cut to slice and from one material to the next. You can not generalize like that, it is hype and nothing more.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
The statement is meaningless as they have not said how they measured it. The edge retention difference will also change from push cut to slice and from one material to the next. You can not generalize like that, it is hype and nothing more.

-Cliff
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Man, I never even though of that. :( You're right though, (of course) a figure like that would change from cutting different types of materials, impact on the edge, ect.

Cliff to the rescue! :p :D
 
I particularly like the "I trust Buck" line here, when they themselves offer hi-end knives in S30V, BG-42, and ATS-34...so, you're saying that Buck knows a great secret but goes ahead and offers the other steels and charges more for the knives made out of them. Tell ya what, let's get C.J. Buck or Paul Bos on this topic and you can ask them of the good-ole 440C is superior to what's offered today.

Also implied in all of this is that Buck is the only company in the know and Spyderco, Benchmade, Kershaw, SOG, etc. and not to mention all the steel mills in the world that produce these steels have no idea what they're talking about.

S7 will hold its edge longer than S30V in certain types of cutting, and the reverse is true. The factors that contribute to edge holding are, just as others have said, extremely diverse and non-linear. Blanket statements that one steel is superior to another in all ways have as much validity as claiming that one color is better than another.

However, I'm guessing this is understood on some level and the primary purpose of this post thread is for attention. Or, perhaps that's not the case at all, and if that's so, then by all means continue to use 420HC, but stop expecting many here to agree with you. For some uses, 420HC is indeed superior to S30V, but don't think for one minute that there is any other reason for it being the darling of walmart and hardware store knives across the country than it is easy to produce (low wear on the machines manufacturing it) and that it stays bright and shiny for a long time, which the knife companies know all too well is the chief criteria for most of the buying public.

And as to Cabelas...hey, I like 'em, but I don't think the little guys who write up their ads know any more about the way a knife is made than the construction process for the fishing reels they sell or the chemical compositions of the insect repellents on their shelves. They're a distributor, and one with a vast array of products at that.


sepia said:
Im pretty new here but I smell a troll...
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Watch your tone, sepia....
Get it? :D Okay, obviously too much coffee this morning.
 
sepia said:
Im pretty new here but I smell a troll...
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how can you troll one type of steel on a general knife discussion board. this would make sense if this were a Crucible board, but here people don't all have to like the same stuff.
 
hardheart said:
how can you troll one type of steel on a general knife discussion board. this would make sense if this were a Crucible board, but here people don't all have to like the same stuff.
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Perhaps you're right, time will tell. Personally I was detecting some of the same odor myself, but again, that could be the coffee.
 
my experience has been that S30V does indeed hold an edge for a very long time. I did have tiny, and I mean tiny, chips in my Native but that was my own fault. I was traveling light and didn't have a SAK with me and opened a can of pineapple juice with it. I don't like how hard it is to reprofile, though, and I'm not in a rush to buy more. I know it's almost heresy around these parts but I actually like AUS8 as a good compromise between edge holding and toughness. I have no desire to try ZDP-189. I'm a light user but occasionaly ham handed so I err on the side of toughness. YMMV

Frank
 
Again, I'm not sure how 45% improvement in something (anything) could be considered trivial. :eek: :eek:

Try getting a 45% raise at work, or getting 45% better gas mileage in your car, or beating the other team by a margin of 45% (it would be a terrible thrashing) or winning an election with a margin of 45% would be a gigantic landslide. Going 45% faster on the racetrack would have you lapping the other guy within only a few laps. How'd you like to pay another 45% in income tax? I'm sure it would seem like a big deal then!:D

Saying 45% only gets you another measly 45 cuts seems designed to trivialize the margin. It's also like getting another 450 cuts after 1,000.:eek:

Again, that figure seems very impressive to me ... so much so I'd like to know how they came up with it.
 
By the law of diminishing returns 45% is a huge improvement, based on the cost difference.

As to the veracity of catalog claims, never believe a salesman or catalog.
 
In the world of reasonable quality seperates (Hi Fi audio stuff)

If you take a good set of speakers, amp and cd player and go for the right models for say (off the top of my head) $2000 you get a great sound. To get a 45% increase in the quality and loudness... hell you would be spending tens of thousands more.

45% is a very very significant improvement... and its knife (1) knives (more than one) "knifes":rolleyes: Knifes is used to say...

Jack knifes jill. Meaning to stab.:yawn:
 
Silverdagger said:
A $45 Buck Duke from SMKW would crush any Native. One is new age cheap plastic with good steel, the other is Old world tech with the knife with a slightly inferior steel. That said, they are similar sized but different knifes. Either way, if 420HC will cut 100 slices, you'll only get 145 out of S30V
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Crush how? It is a pocket knife and I cut with it not put in in vices and hammer on it. So if it holds an edge 45% longer that would seem to me it would not need to be sharpened as much and last longer. 45% is not slightly better to me but maybe to you. I looked at the Buck Dukes and I will still take my "new age cheap plastic". LOL:D
 
I think what is being left unsaid is that AUS8 and 440A are probably somewhere in the middle. Maybe only 22.5% better than 420HC or 22.5% less good than S30V.

The point is, don't look down on the cheaper steels. 420 HC will cut all day long, you'll make it almost a half more day with S30V and probably somewhere inbetween with 440A or AUS8.

For a knife sharpening kind of guy, I'll keep my money or buy another blade. You can get two Kershaw 440A leeks for the price of one S30V. 440A might only be 22.5% better than 420HC, I don't know, but I do know it is better. So you are paying double for only a little better performance, not a good deal.

http://www.knivesplus.com/kershaw-leek-knives.html
 
Another interesting thing here, I've never seen how much better any steel is versus the next quantified, until I saw this in Cabelas. Now I know this one thing, Bucks' S30V is 45% > 420HC.

I suppose if someone had two newly sharpened 110's, one 420HC and one S30V we could find out for sure. All I have is on 425M

Or someone with two Leeks.
 
Here are a couple more ...

A 45% increase in gas prices would have us pushing $5 per gallon. :eek:

Try taking nearly half (45%) the food off your plate and tell me it's a trivial percentage!:eek: :eek:

Drinking 45% more alcohol than some folks on this forum (assuming it was possible) would easily result in death.:eek: :eek: :eek:

A jet flying 45% faster will get Algore across the country in a tad over 3 hours--plenty of time for the caviar reception at LiveEarth.:)
 
*sigh* Not that I'm expecting the original poster to listen to this, or anything else anyone has had to say, but following his "You could buy two of these cheaper ones and have TWICE the performance" mentality, allow me to direct towards the fine wares that pop up on informercials now and again.

"That's right folks! ONE HUNDRED KNIVES FOR FIFTY DOLLARS!!!! These are gen-yoo-wine stainless steel, and they've been hardened for edge holding!"

I'm willing to bet that one of those two dollar knives would probably have nearly 20% the edge holding of an equivalent (size/style) Buck model that would cost thirty dollars. So, you're paying an 1,800% price increase for ONLY an 80% performance increase??? My gawd, you mean that I've been spending all this money on high quality, individual pieces when I could carry thirty or forty of these knives on my person at all times that would do the same amount of cutting?! Well suuuun-bitch, where's my checkbook?

I could compare this conversation to beating one's head against a brick wall, except for the fact that a brick wall can at least be pardoned for lack of reason since it doesn't, in fact, have a brain.
 
t1mpani said:
*sigh* Not that I'm expecting the original poster to listen to this, or anything else anyone has had to say, but following his "You could buy two of these cheaper ones and have TWICE the performance" mentality, allow me to direct towards the fine wares that pop up on informercials now and again.

".
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Or you can have one which will cut all day and one which will cut one day and almost a half another.

Or one that will cut 200 slices while the other cuts 290 slices. (200 x 1.45)

Not a big difference.

You're point is well taken. I do like seeing the cold hard figures, and this is the first time I've seen them, as I would think is reported by Buck, a knifemaker with a fine reputation. All other times, I've seen one has this percentage of this or that and but the results are not quantified.
 
Tell ya what, you can have my share of the world's supply of 420, 440, and AUS steel. I will never feel any need for another one. Ditto for any knife made by Buck! :barf:

If I were forced to have a stainless blade, S30V or S90V from a reputable maker would be my choices. Meantime, I'll stick to A-2 and D-2.
 
if the overall build quality is on par (or exact, if you have a Buck in S30V and one in 420HC) then a value comparison between the steels is easier to make.

something I generally see missing in the comparisons of cutting performance is resharpening effort. Depending on how you use a blade, this could be a factor worth evaluating. If this 45% is true (who really knows), then it is mitigated somewhat if, for example, to restore the same level of sharpness it takes ten strokes on a stone for the 420HC and 14 strokes for the S30V. You then do as much sharpening for the amount of cutting. If you change your edge profile or abrasive type, it changes again. And what is being cut and how to get these numbers.

but degradation of cutting performance in not linear, so there's another hitch. Plus the other properties that sometimes get ignored, like corrosion resistance and impact toughness.

we know which steel is cheaper, who knows which one is better.
 
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