Cringe review by Project Farm of which knife brand is "best"

The test results also make me wonder how that aus8 sog and tenacious did so well. Does that mean maybe with an equal high end steel vs say Benchmade, would it easily outperform the Benchmade? I mean an inferior steel already did or at least matched it

If nothing else maybe it opens our eyes to how well companies heat treat their knives. If x and y brand are better than z, it would surely affect my buying decision
 
catspa said:
Sure, and if I were already a fan of his I’d probably try to give him the benefit of the doubt. Although I do think he easily could have phrased it more accurately, and it would have saved me boosting my post count tonight.

“This knife, from Smith & Wesson, was made in China.”
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Listen at 42 seconds into the video: "The Smith & Wesson is made in China."
 
darkcruzer said:
And that's exactly why I think his test is valid and eye opening. People recommend the civil elementum(d2) left and right for a budget knife. Yet that sog in aus8 did far better. And the people that recommend it probably haven't tested it against that sog or another aus8 that's cheaper and performs better. Yet blindly recommend it

I have no preferences in brands or steels. I'm a noob. But that's exactly why this is so valuable. I don't want that $13 knife even tho i guarantee it outperformed what everyone he would have expected. But no matter what i spend i want to make sure I get the best one.

Sure i would be happy with the Benchmade even if it's overpriced for it's performance. Sure i would be happy with the D2 elementum. But if i knew going into the purchase that if i went with the sog i would have better performance than the elementum. I would be happier.

Again i know there's more to choosing a knife that the blade and performance. If you hate how it feels or operates then it's a deal breaker
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There are a lot of variables. Any test is only testing what it's testing under those test conditions. That said, Outpost 76 tested Ontario Rats in AUS-8 versus D2 against cardboard, sharpened the same way to the same angle, and tested on subsequent edges for repeatability. The AUS-8 won. (Pete from Cedric & Ada got the opposite result on rope.)

While the budget D2 coming out of China is a consistent upgrade versus 8Cr13Mov, it rarely comes close to matching the reputation built by "D2" in American knives. Steels like 14C28N and 9Cr18Mov shouldn't be competitive on edge retention (much less AUS-8) but they often are. YouTube cut testing has helped to increase public understanding of this. I have to wonder if that isn't the reason that Bestech and Petrified Fish have started importing K110 as a semi-premium alternative to their usual D2.

Now, the Elementum is a nice knife in its own right. Setting realistic expectations for the Chinese D2, the edge retention isn't terrible for a $50 knife. So long as the corrosion resistance isn't an issue, the Elementum will serve a lot of people very well. (Of course, the BladeHQ exclusive in S35VN and the new titanium WE versions are also options.)
 
Problem is !
PF's test is only relevant to the knives tested ...
We dont know what a knife of acceptable ( tested ) performance is capable of in that scenario ! ( test ) ....
So we have data , but how that data relates to other tests ( slide rule ) ...
We have results , but we cant cross match them .. Simply because
A) Each knife is an unknown
B) The test is unique
The test is relevant in itself , but how you compare the data to some one else's results or performance scale ?
Some one would need to contact PF and request a knife to test .
ANd that test would need to be repeatable / consistent / and comparable ..
Or send PF a knife of known edge holding and have him run the test on that and see what the result is ..

Certainly by the looks of this thread , there is some interest .
 
David Mary said:
C catspa wouldn't it be a little kinder to assume he simply didn't know and it didn't occur to him to look up the licensing info?
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That's intellectually lazy, which is not a good trait for someone attempting to provide valid information. Giving him the benefit of the doubt.
 
darkcruzer said:
Maybe that's a better test. But it still doesn't explain how a cheaper steel/knife can match or outperform an expensive one rubbing across some wood.
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I did explain how, you refuse to listen (a block of wood is not very abrasive, oppositely cardboard is full of dirt and grit because it's recycled so much).

Again it's not an invalid test, come to think of it he should really test an OLFA blade since those blades are made of a basic hard carbon steel quite similar to my predicted ideal steel type for this test.
It's not like disposable blades need to be wasteful either, a disposable blade can be re-sharpened as well as any other piece of steel, and the 1mm thick (EDIT: The blades in the link are 0.5mm) blade stock gives disposable blades an extreme advantage in both cutting ability and resharpenability.
Forget $30 knives, the best blades in the world cost 50 cents a piece: https://www.amazon.com/OLFA-LB-50-Blades-Spare-Japan/dp/B07JJ7HQYY/

After selling off most of my knife collection in 2012 I carried an OLFA LA-X as my EDC for a few years (eventually coming back around to the appeal of the XL Voyager, which both cuts things and makes a great folding shovel, OLFA blades aren't so good at digging dirt out of farm equipment).
 
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Chronovore said:
There are a lot of variables. Any test is only testing what it's testing under those test conditions. That said, Outpost 76 tested Ontario Rats in AUS-8 versus D2 against cardboard, sharpened the same way to the same angle, and tested on subsequent edges for repeatability. The AUS-8 won. (Pete from Cedric & Ada got the opposite result on rope.)

While the budget D2 coming out of China is a consistent upgrade versus 8Cr13Mov, it rarely comes close to matching the reputation built by "D2" in American knives. Steels like 14C28N and 9Cr18Mov shouldn't be competitive on edge retention (much less AUS-8) but they often are. YouTube cut testing has helped to increase public understanding of this. I have to wonder if that isn't the reason that Bestech and Petrified Fish have started importing K110 as a semi-premium alternative to their usual D2.

Now, the Elementum is a nice knife in its own right. Setting realistic expectations for the Chinese D2, the edge retention isn't terrible for a $50 knife. So long as the corrosion resistance isn't an issue, the Elementum will serve a lot of people very well. (Of course, the BladeHQ exclusive in S35VN and the new titanium WE versions are also options.)
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the tenacious in 8cr13 also outperformed the elementum in d2

Joshua J. said:
I did explain how, you refuse to listen (a block of wood is not very abrasive, oppositely cardboard is full of dirt and grit because it's recycled so much).

Again it's not an invalid test, come to think of it he should really test an OLFA blade since those blades are made of a basic hard carbon steel quite similar to my predicted ideal steel type for this test.
It's not like disposable blades need to be wasteful either, a disposable blade can be re-sharpened as well as any other piece of steel, and the 1mm thick (EDIT: The blades in the link are 0.5mm) blade stock gives disposable blades an extreme advantage in both cutting ability and resharpenability.
Forget $30 knives, the best blades in the world cost 50 cents a piece: https://www.amazon.com/OLFA-LB-50-Blades-Spare-Japan/dp/B07JJ7HQYY/

After selling off most of my knife collection in 2012 I carried an OLFA LA-X as my EDC for a few years (eventually coming back around to the appeal of the XL Voyager, which both cuts things and makes a great folding shovel, OLFA blades aren't so good at digging dirt out of farm equipment).
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so your logic is "a higher quality steel will fail in a low abrasive wood test, but it will win a highly abrasive test"
maybe im misunderstanding but that sounds like "a toyota corolla will win a 0-60, but a corvette will win the 1/4"
 
Boattale said:
That's intellectually lazy, which is not a good trait for someone attempting to provide valid information. Giving him the benefit of the doubt.
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From what I saw of the video, he was trying to provide hands on practical information. If he saw "S&W" on the knife, and assumed it was "made by" S&W, I am not going to call him intellectually lazy - unless his video was meant to be about business practices, marketing and/or economics, in which case, yeah that would have been a fail.
 
I enjoyed his video. I was genuinely surprised with the performance of the S&W. It would make a great loner or beat-to-death knife. I liked the selection of knives he tested. They all kind of filled the gaps of knife options to the casual user who thinks a good knife is a sharp one and isn't bothered to look up steel compositions and so on. They see a brand that they might be familiar with, buy it, use it, maybe sharpen it, lose it or break it and then go buy another one. As others have said, his video was directed to the average person, not knife snobs who own a knife collection worth a new car.

Give the guy a break. He makes good videos that are viewer suggested and his tests are very well thought out in my opinion.
 
The only problem I had I was testing the factory edge. Factory edges shouldn't mean anything because they are only determined by the sharpeners current state of mind. A lot of us put our own edges on knives as soon as we get them anyway.
 
darkcruzer said:
The test results also make me wonder how that aus8 sog and tenacious did so well. Does that mean maybe with an equal high end steel vs say Benchmade, would it easily outperform the Benchmade? I mean an inferior steel already did or at least matched it

If nothing else maybe it opens our eyes to how well companies heat treat their knives. If x and y brand are better than z, it would surely affect my buying decision
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You might draw that conclusion in a vacuum, but there are many others who have done extensive edge retention testing and, generally speaking, both Spyderco and Benchmade do quite well with their heat treats.
 
I think the reality is that, even with knives in the $200-300 range, it is a bit of "luck of the draw" as far as steel quality goes. If you go with a respected make and a good steel formula, you've got a much better chance of drawing an ace then you do going with a cheap brand and less well-regarded steel.

It's worth taking a few minutes to go through Pete's (Cedric & Ada Youtube channel) results spreadsheet, which breaks down his hundreds of tests in various ways. If you scroll down to the graph where he breaks it down by manufacturer and steel, you'll see that he tested a Civivi in D2 that outperformed a Benchmade in M4 and a Spyderco in Cru-wear, as well as other brands' blades in M390/20cv. But, on average, a Spyderco or Benchmade in M4, M390, or Cru-wear is going to kick the snot out of a lesser brand sporting D2.
docs.google.com

Cedric and Ada Steel Comparison Ratings

Graphs 387 edge retention tests with 112 different materials 245 knives from 93 makers 121 Worksharp edges (20 degree) 114 KME edges 64 Factory edges 88 other edges (Tormek, Edge Pro, stones, or sharpened by others)
docs.google.com docs.google.com

The lack of consistently is unfortunate, but it is what it is.
 
Boattale said:
Unlike Smith and Wesson. Which has never made knives.
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Wait......what?
Time for some intellectual honesty and a history lesson for those who might be a little late to the knife party.
Smith & Wesson, since we're getting into the weeds here, did, in fact, produce knives in house from about the mid-70's until the mid-80's. Their operation was set up by Blackie Collins, using his designs and produced some very fine work.
-Mark
 
I admit I find his manner of speaking over the top and gratuitously.... excited? Contrived even. But that's just a subjective opinion. Like pizza toppings.
 
Mark, does that mean this reviewed knife was made by S&W? I don’t think so, any more than groceries are “made by Safeway”.

Pizza toppings, mmm. I don’t know who made those, but I doubt it was Smith & Wesson (Wesson oil is an ingredient of salad toppings, IME).

Parker
 
catspa said:
Mark, does that mean this reviewed knife was made by S&W? I don’t think so, any more than groceries are “made by Safeway”.

Pizza toppings, mmm. I don’t know who made those, but I doubt it was Smith & Wesson (Wesson oil is an ingredient of salad toppings, IME).

Parker
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Nope.
I know what I know, and I know what I don't know, and I expect to be educated at some point if I am mistaken.
I'm not aware of what everyone here knows, but I'd much rather that folks know the truth about S&W's knife involvement rather than take at face value the statement that S&W has NEVER made knives.
-Mark
 
I watched that. It was bad.

Never again.

I like watching Metal Complex and Nick Shabazz to get a rundown of what I’m buying before I buy it and that’s about it.
 
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