Cringe review by Project Farm of which knife brand is "best"

[strategy9]

at no point in the video does he claim to be a knife expert.
since your an expert, where is your test?

My test is through a bunch of actual knife experts who test multiple knife brands, steels, etc, many which can be found right here in the forums.

Also my own personal experience... I actually own an older S&W I keep in the side pocket on the door of my truck as a backup... It would never be my "go 2", but it's adequate enough for a spare backup beater; I also know that it was made by Taylor Cutlery, the same company that makes Schrade, and I've bought cheap $15 - 20 Schrades for folks before who had nothing...

I will say though, now that I recall, the S&W holding company did acquire Taylor Brands LLC in about 4-5 yes ago, purchased under their BTI subgroup, so I guess it is now fair to say that S&W does in fact make the knives since their parent company does now own the brand, so in that regard, I do stand corrected... I can admit when I'm wrong.

I still don't put much stock into YouTube knife reviews. Grain of salt at best.

 

[Leo Greer]

I will call out ANYONE who recommends a S&W knife.

There are things I would recommend one for. Like digging in the dirt, or for basic cutting tasks. Maybe it’s not the best knife, or even the best knife for the money, but it is dirt cheap.

 

[Chronovore]

the tenacious in 8cr13 also outperformed the elementum in d2

Maybe here in this particular test. However, in both my less scientific personal experience and lots of other types of testing, you can usually count on Chinese D2 to smoke 8Cr13Mov on edge retention.

Combining my experience with different testing I've seen, the best budget steels under $50 tend to be 9Cr18Mov and 14C28N (with an honorable mention to 12C27).

In the $50-100 range, I've been happy with VG-10 and N690 but this pot can get muddy. For instance, the 9Cr18Mov from Sencut and Civivi with WE's excellent heat treatment will generally out-cut VG-10. We also see some higher-end steels dipping down for budget runs, including S35VN and M390. Even without the best heat treatment, those steel do "okay". Coincidentally, the bottom performance range for those steels overlaps with that top-range for 9Cr18Mov. We've also got some new kids on the block with Civivi using Nitro-V and more companies moving to 154CM in this range.

 

[Joshua J.]

so your logic is "a higher quality steel will fail in a low abrasive wood test, but it will win a highly abrasive test"
maybe im misunderstanding but that sounds like "a toyota corolla will win a 0-60, but a corvette will win the 1/4"

It's like reviewing cars based only on the maxium G-force in a skid pad test.
With the right tires and suspension almost any economy car can give top tier results, it shows you one aspect of a quality car, but how important that aspect is will change entirely based on where you're running.
The winning car in a parking lot Autocross track will be entirely different from the winning car around Nurburgring, and I'd say that analogy works quite well comparing knives for EDC versus other tasks, the performance of an Autocross car will have the most carryover to daily driving, whereas you're never going to use the huge horsepower and top speed of a car developed for the Nurburgring.

 

[darkcruzer]

It's like reviewing cars based only on the maxium G-force in a skid pad test.
With the right tires and suspension almost any economy car can give top tier results, it shows you one aspect of a quality car, but how important that aspect is will change entirely based on where you're running.
The winning car in a parking lot Autocross track will be entirely different from the winning car around Nurburgring, and I'd say that analogy works quite well comparing knives for EDC versus other tasks, the performance of an Autocross car will have the most carryover to daily driving, whereas you're never going to use huge horsepower and top speed of a car developed for the Nurburgring.

How would it be possible for a Nurburgring winner to lose a parking lot autocross? The only disadvantage it would have is having too much power but any driver who can win the Nurburgring should be able to control that power to win a parking lot autocross

How can a superior steel lose a "less abrasive" test? If it's more durable then it should have lost basically no sharpness in a "less abrasive" test

 

[Joshua J.]

How would it be possible for a Nurburgring winner to lose a parking lot autocross? The only disadvantage it would have is having too much power but any driver who can win the Nurburgring should be able to control that power to win a parking lot autocross

How can a superior steel lose a "less abrasive" test? If it's more durable then it should have lost basically no sharpness in a "less abrasive" test

Power comes with weight, downforce only works at high speed, aerodynamics and horsepower are meaningless on the skid pad, which is the entire point of the skid pad test.
High alloy steel is not more durable.

Clearly you just need to do some materials science homework before discussing the topic further: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/

 

[darkcruzer]

Edge retention. You know what i meant. But good job avoiding the question

 

[UNBLF]

"Abrasion resistance refers to the ability of materials and structures to withstand abrasion. It is a method of wearing down or rubbing away by means of friction."
he clearly tested it by using friction. maybe no one uses their knives to cut wood, but a very hard wood is a lot faster and more damaging than cutting cardboard



he probably has limits on video length, not to mention its way faster to run the knives over a very hard wood vs cutting thousands of pieces of rope or cardboard. even if it wasnt long enough, thats NO excuse for a $258 knive with a "superior steel" to perform worse. if anything even a short test should expose the durability of weaker cheaper steels/knives. correct?

No. You do not really understand the basics of wear resistance and real-life overall edge performance, as well as what makes a knife truly "superior". In the vast majority of cases, it's a balancing game.
Also, you do not realize that any "edge retention comparison tests" proves absolutely nothing, NOTHING, until the tester regrind all contenders to identical edge geometry, identical edge angle, and identical grit.

What dulls an edge in real use? Four aspects: wear, chip, roll, and rust.
A knife with extreme wear resistance, aka giving thousands of cuts on a rope, may very well be much more inferior on hard wood. Because rope and hard wood test two almost entirely different aspects of a steel / knife.

The only proper way to replace cutting thousands of pieces of rope with a quicker test, is to cut a rope with much larger diameter, just like the DBK did.

Also, IMO, the BESS device is not that accurate when the difference is not big enough. I'd say, from his video, the difference between 145 and 165 is negligible, since many steps are performed with free hands. For example, after he performed "identical" sharpening procedures on all knives, he still recorded various sharpness scores from 115 to 145.

If we keep the above in mind, it's easy to see that after resharpening, the more expensive knives did perform better, CJRB being the splitting point.

 

[darkcruzer]

Also, you do not realize that any "edge retention comparison tests" proves absolutely nothing, NOTHING, until the tester regrind all contenders to identical edge geometry, identical edge angle, and identical grit.

So the $900 sharpener couldn't get them all identical?

The industrial grade machine that measures sharpness is wrong.

Well you confirmed one thing that i suspected. None of you know which knifes is better than the next because you could never have perfect conditions to test it and therefore prove it. Every recommendation by anyone is 100% opinion and never fact.

 

[UNBLF]

So the $900 sharpener couldn't get them all identical?

The industrial grade machine that measures sharpness is wrong.

Well you confirmed one thing that i suspected. None of you know which knifes is better than the next because you could never have perfect conditions to test it and therefore prove it. Every recommendation by anyone is 100% opinion and never fact.

Please, read my words carefully, and think about them, before making it personal and judging my capability and motivation of evaluating knives.

I'm trying to have a logical conversation with you, not to start a fight.

The $900 sharpener can and should get them all identical no problem, which is EXACTY my point: After all knives sharpened on the same $900 machine to the same DPS, the Opinel at 12:47 scored 145, while the CJRB at 13:03 scored 115.

Now here is the question: If the sharpener got all the knives identical, then why would the knives have DIFFERENT BESS scores RIGHT AFTER he sharpened them?

1, A "BESS certified Sharp Electronic" kitchen scale is hardly an "industrial grade" high accuracy machine, especially if it allows user to operate with free hand at uncontrolled angles and introduce all kinds of user variations. A CATRA test machine, on the other hand, is an industrial grade machine. Although it doesn't test sharpness, you should check it out and see how it eliminates possible variations to a higher level.

2, A plus or minus 30 variation in his BESS scores should be deemed negligible to compensate for user variations, which is exactly why I say he should have cut much more to obtain a result set with much higher differences.

 

[UNBLF]

So the $900 sharpener couldn't get them all identical?

The industrial grade machine that measures sharpness is wrong.

Well you confirmed one thing that i suspected. None of you know which knifes is better than the next because you could never have perfect conditions to test it and therefore prove it. Every recommendation by anyone is 100% opinion and never fact.

1, His pre-resharpening score graph (12:07) means absolutely nothing to anyone, except maybe for people who buy knives but don't sharpen them, which is the same thing as buying a car but never go to gas station.

2, From his test result, the only thing I can roughly deduct (from the after-resharpen score graph at 15:12) is:

From Buck to Benchmade is league 1, from CJRB to Opinel is league 2, and from CRKT to Ontario is league 3, in terms of cutting hard wood. I cannot deduct ANY edge retention differences within a league, because the score differences are not high enough to overshadow possible free hand variations.

3, In terms of testing edge retention of pocket folding knives, cutting hard wood is much, much inferior to cutting manilla ropes, there is no question about that.

 

[3D Anvil]

Please, read my words carefully, and think about them, before making it personal and judging my capability and motivation of evaluating knives.

I'm trying to have a logical conversation with you, not to start a fight.

The $900 sharpener can and should get them all identical no problem, which is EXACTY my point: After all knives sharpened on the same $900 machine to the same DPS, the Opinel at 12:47 scored 145, while the CJRB at 13:03 scored 115.

Now here is the question: If the sharpener got all the knives identical, then why would the knives have DIFFERENT BESS scores RIGHT AFTER he sharpened them?

1, A "BESS certified Sharp Electronic" kitchen scale is hardly an "industrial grade" high accuracy machine, especially if it allows user to operate with free hand at uncontrolled angles and introduce all kinds of user variations. A CATRA test machine, on the other hand, is an industrial grade machine. Although it doesn't test sharpness, you should check it out and see how it eliminates possible variations to a higher level.

2, A plus or minus 30 variation in his BESS scores should be deemed negligible to compensate for user variations, which is exactly why I say he should have cut much more to obtain a result set with much higher differences.

I think the variation is better explained by the sharpening process, but it could be either or a combination. Specifically, sharpening involves apexing the blade and then completely deburring the edge. He probably apexed all the blades, but relatively modest differences in deburring can lead to sizable differences in sharpness testing.

I have the PT50B BESS tester and I can regularly get repeatable results within the scale's 5 gram accuracy range. BUT ... you have to be very careful about how you do the test, applying pressure slowly and keeping the blade perpendicular to the test media. If you don't do it correctly you can again get sizable variations in test readings.

 

[UNBLF]

I think the variation is better explained by the sharpening process, but it could be either or a combination. Specifically, sharpening involves apexing the blade and then completely deburring the edge. He probably apexed all the blades, but relatively modest differences in deburring can lead to sizable differences in sharpness testing.

I have the PT50B BESS tester and I can regularly get repeatable results within the scale's 5 gram accuracy range. BUT ... you have to be very careful about how you do the test, applying pressure slowly and keeping the blade perpendicular to the test media. If you don't do it correctly you can again get sizable variations in test readings.

Exactly.

I was a bit surprised at how he cut into the "wire" with different knives at visibly very different angles and blades wobbling around.

He sped up his stropping process so I can't really tell about his deburring, but there's definitely some sizable variations in the BESS process.

 

[darkcruzer]

1, His pre-resharpening score graph (12:07) means absolutely nothing to anyone, except maybe for people who buy knives but don't sharpen them, which is the same thing as buying a car but never go to gas station.

2, From his test result, the only thing I can roughly deduct (from the after-resharpen score graph at 15:12) is:

From Buck to Benchmade is league 1, from CJRB to Opinel is league 2, and from CRKT to Ontario is league 3, in terms of cutting hard wood. I cannot deduct ANY edge retention differences within a league, because the score differences are not high enough to overshadow possible free hand variations.

3, In terms of testing edge retention of pocket folding knives, cutting hard wood is much, much inferior to cutting manilla ropes, there is no question about that.

This is exactly my argument. That $50 sog in aus8 performed in the same league as the $258 Benchmade. I don't think project farm is perfect and i don't deny that the test may not be 100% accurate so maybe in reality the Benchmade did slightly outperform the sog. But the fact that the sog is even in the same league is impressive in my opinion

As I've said before, perhaps cutting rope is a better test. I won't argue because I wouldn't know. But it wouldn't make sense(to me anyways) for a better knife to not outperform in an inferior test

I hope he does a round 2 soon and tests another great set of knives and gets testing up to your standards

 

[darkcruzer]

I also think it's important for people to see and know that if your going to spend $50 and you want the best blade performance and durability, that sog is better than the elementum. Perhaps the elementum is better in every other way or it better suits the individuals preferences

The reason I like his testing and videos is because he provides evidence. People say mobile 1 is the best motor oil but they have no evidence. They say "well I've used it in my brand new car that now has 50k miles)
That proves nothing.

Then project farm tests oil and while he doesn't use an engine and run each oil in it for 100k+ miles and tear it down to see. He does the next best thing. He tests it for viscosity in multiple ways, tests evaporation and most importantly (imo) it's ability to protect metal on metal contact

His results may not be perfect but at least i have something concrete to go on instead of someone's guess

 

[Chronovore]

For the next test, how about we brace the knives and throw oranges at the blades as hard as we can. How many can each knife cleave cleanly in twain?

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

I put little to no stock in Youtube knife-opinion videos. And I lean towards giving them no credibility at all. Perhaps because I've seen too many that were nothing more than some guy with a camera giving his personal opinions. Anyone can play "knife expert" on Youtube.

You say that video is cringe inducing? I can believe that. So I won't waste my time watching it.

This.

Cant tell ya how many nerds I've seen do out of the box "reviews".

YouTube is littered with these types regurgitating knife guff they learned 5 minutes ago like... "it's not a true scandi grind because it has a micro bevel".

Really irritating having to sift through waves of plastic shit to find viable input.

 

[tltt]

The Smith and Wesson timeline -

70's - early 1980's, they made knives in Houlton, Me. Their factory there handled the knives, certain .22 pistols, and the handcuffs.
Early/mid 80's - early 90's, they licensed the name to Vermont Knife Co, who were in Rutland, Vt.
Then in in 93/94ish, Taylor acquired the license, and they finally sold it back off to Battenfeld in mid 2016, which in turn, is an S and W offshoot.

 

[Natlek]

For the next test, how about we brace the knives and throw oranges at the blades as hard as we can. How many can each knife cleave cleanly in twain?

I think I have better idea .We can drag edges on DMT 400 grit diamonds and be done with testing once and for all All steel are are equal . The industry that uses them and throws money for expensive steel , should use the cheapest in all applications !

 

[Natlek]

I think the variation is better explained by the sharpening process, but it could be either or a combination. Specifically, sharpening involves apexing the blade and then completely deburring the edge. He probably apexed all the blades, but relatively modest differences in deburring can lead to sizable differences in sharpness testing.

I have the PT50B BESS tester and I can regularly get repeatable results within the scale's 5 gram accuracy range. BUT ... you have to be very careful about how you do the test, applying pressure slowly and keeping the blade perpendicular to the test media. If you don't do it correctly you can again get sizable variations in test readings.

I watched that video on big screen ,some parts I watched several times . I would not swear but I think he did not do deburring on some edges completely.............