CRK fixed blade question

well... again, just sticking with knives on knifetests... the Schrade Extreme Survival, which is a nearly identical knife made of lesser steel HAS serrations just like both the CRK knives, did not snap. The Ka-Bar D2 (which is an infamously brittle steel, compared to other hard use steels) did not snap at the hammer test either. The SOG Seal made of AUS6 (which is far from a high end steel) has serrations and passed this part of the test just fine... The Gerber LMF II made of 12C27 steel had serrations and did just fine with this test... and I may have missed one or two others as well.

So... lets do the math here... There are 6 knives total in this example. Each made of a different steel. All have serrations on the lower section of the primary cutting edge. Only two of the knives failed (by snapping in half) on one particular test. And on top of this, one of the knives that did not fail this test is made from steel known to be 'brittle.'

Now, I am no expert and I do not claim to be, however I do feel I know a decent amount about knives and different steel types. To me, if there are 6 knives all hammered into wood with a metal hammer and the only two that fail are by the same manufacturer, made of different steels... there has to be something going on with the heat treatment. I could be wrong, but it seems pretty straight forward to me.
 
The reason I don't think the heat treat played a big role is that A2 and S30V are two very different steels, and the knives broke pretty much in the same spots. Also, I think Chris Reeve played a role in developing S30V, so I'd be willing to say he knows how to heat treat it. Of the knives listed, I only have the SOG Seal 2000 to compare to my Shadow IV, but I can say that the Seal could not have been hit as hard as any other knife due to the fact that the tests were done under water. It's impossible to move as fast under water, thus the impacts won't be as hard. Doing an in hand comparison of the two knives, I saw and felt the grind on the Seal. The grind on the Seal is much thicker than the hollow grind on my Shadow IV. If the Project I is similar to my Shadow IV, I'd bet that the blade geometry is similar. As a side note, I don't think the Seal 2000 has ever been known to slice very well. Anyway, I really just wanted to throw out why I don't think the heat treat is a major factor.
 
coldsilence55 said:
Hello, I'm getting more into bladeforums recently and wanted to post a question... It has probably been discussed before but here goes... I hope I won't be black listed here or something for mentioning it... but I have always liked the CRK fixed blade designs but have been extremely hesitant to even think of getting one after seeing the infamous Noss tests. I was wondering if these two failures have ever been addressed by CRK and has the heat treating problem been fixed with more recent releases?

Before people start saying how its not a realistic test, etc etc let me say that I do understand that already. It is not a real world application of either of those knives. However, for example, if being used as a survival blade in a frozen environment, batoning with and through frozen hard would could come pretty close to the soft 2x4 and metal hammer.

Anyway, my point being... The designs seem great, but for the price point, unless the blades are more durable then the two tested by Noss, why not spend an equal or less amount of money on a knife that most likely will not have catastrophic failure if pushed a tiny bit past its intended purpose? (ie, RAT, Ontario, Busse, SwampRat, etc)

I want to mention I am not trying to bash or bring up any sore subjects... just asking this question as a potential buyer of a product. Because I do own a Sebenza and love it (after a few mods anyway)!

Thanks!
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coldsilence55 said:
well... again, just sticking with knives on knifetests... the Schrade Extreme Survival, which is a nearly identical knife made of lesser steel HAS serrations just like both the CRK knives, did not snap. The Ka-Bar D2 (which is an infamously brittle steel, compared to other hard use steels) did not snap at the hammer test either. The SOG Seal made of AUS6 (which is far from a high end steel) has serrations and passed this part of the test just fine... The Gerber LMF II made of 12C27 steel had serrations and did just fine with this test... and I may have missed one or two others as well.

So... lets do the math here... There are 6 knives total in this example. Each made of a different steel. All have serrations on the lower section of the primary cutting edge. Only two of the knives failed (by snapping in half) on one particular test. And on top of this, one of the knives that did not fail this test is made from steel known to be 'brittle.'

Now, I am no expert and I do not claim to be, however I do feel I know a decent amount about knives and different steel types. To me, if there are 6 knives all hammered into wood with a metal hammer and the only two that fail are by the same manufacturer, made of different steels... there has to be something going on with the heat treatment. I could be wrong, but it seems pretty straight forward to me.
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Well silence,

It would seem from reading these two posts you already had your mind made up as to what evidence was important to you. So why even bother to start the thread and then argue about it 5 pages in? I'm not going to waste my time with my experiences using CRK product in the forest to illustrate my usage or how well they have served me considering how much wieght you give Noss testing.

Using your words, "why not spend an equal or less amount on a knife that may not have a catastrophic failure?" Perhaps it is because the knives you mentioned have a less than stellar rep regarding edge holding, which sorta is why you even have a knife and what you expect it's primary function to be. Ever sharpen AUS-6 and then use it? The fact it can take a beating from a hammer is pretty much irrelevant to me at least.

You shouldn't be blacklisted, but I question your sincerity especially when considering your posts and the "potential buyer" attempt at qualifying the sincerity angle. You are likely better off with a SOG, Shrade, or Gerber, which are the epitome of fine quality blades and likely fit your budget better and break your heart less, when beaten into submission with a hammer.

And as long as you're interested, or anyone else for that matter, in math, my example of the Green Beret is .220" and the Mark VI is at .200", not .250". It might not make a difference to you, but as someone who has made and used knives out of different stock thicknesses, it is huge.
 
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Narrow tangs can more easely spread the impact stress of the blade.A single piece of steel will get the whole force on one point.
But getting back to the real world: my first CR was bought in 1988 and a lot of others followed.A knife is a cutting and stabbing instrument nothing else.If I need wood in the forest I can easely find a lot of dead wood and break it with my hands.
This test proofs nothing and has the same intellectual level then: take a Mercedes 600 and a little Suzuki: get all the engine oil out of it and start driving.......Oh the Mercedes was the first to get an engine damage.:jerkit:
 
This is the most frustrating thread I've ever participated in. Reeve knows what he's doing. People say oh, it was the heat treat, it was the serrations, and you're all probably wrong.
The reason the knife failed was not a technical one. The reason the knife failed was a guy with a hammer.
 
Uh, sorry missin hobo, but even if the serrations didn't play a major role in the breaks, they did play a role. They are stress concentrators. That's a fact. I even had a materials engineer look at close up pictures of the blades (which are posted on knifetests.com forum) and he saw that the breaks began in the middle of serrations. This, he said, is typical behavior of a fracture starting at a stress concentrator. I already knew this from engineering classes of my own, but wanted to verify with him. I don't think that makes the serrations bad. Lots of knives have serrations and any serration on any knife, regardless of brand, will act as a stress concentrator. How much of a role the serration played in the breakage is anyone's guess, but it did play a role.

Please don't misunderstand me, though. I have a one piece of my own and love it. I am an engineering student and figuring out exactly why things failed interests me. I still think Chris Reeve makes fine quality knives. Once funds allow and if there is still availability, I'm sure I'll purchase another one piece.
 
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Originally posted by dl351
Uh, sorry missin hobo, but even if the serrations didn't play a major role in the breaks, they did play a role. They are stress concentrators. That's a fact.
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Actually, I agree with serrations being stress risers. Sorry for being unclear. My point was that the videos are no reason not to buy a knife with serrations, if you find them useful. Unless it is your explicit intention to destroy the knife, as in the relevant case, they're unlikely to pose a problem.

I like my one-piece, too, but mine is a Shadow IV. Guess I don't have much to worry about :D
 
Hey hey! Good taste! My only one piece is a Shadow IV, too!

It seems we actually agree, now that things are more clear. The videos don't bother me. I'll get a one piece (as long as I can afford it) regardless of the videos. A 25+ year reputation is good enough for me. When it comes to serrations, I actually don't even like them. I prefer plain edge blades.
 
I will be glad when this thread is done. As soon as this subject dies down, someone starts it all over again........lol. In then end it all comes down to an idiot pounding on a knife made from hardened steel with a hammer made from hardened steel. The smaller lighter one broke.....surprise surprise. I would like to thank those of you ( you know who you are ) that intelligently expressed themselves. The videos in No Way change how I feel about my One Piece Collection. I have 17 of them now and if I had the funds, I would buy another without hesitation......................... To the last couple of posters ( dl351 & missin hobo ), the shadow IV is a great knife isn't it ??? I feel its probably the most useful and practical of the whole bunch. The shadow IV is a great size for the outdoors, good strong point,holds a great edge, hollow handle, balances well, tough as nails sheath, what more could you ask for !!!
 
Yup, the Shadow IV is a great knife! I'm used to getting knives that don't come with sheaths, so to get the Shadow IV with that nice leather sheath was a good change of pace. As for all around usefulness of the Shadow IV, that's why I purchased that model. I could only afford one, so I had to make sure it was a versatile one. I'm sure glad I picked one of these up before they're gone! I'm still keeping an eye on the Skinner, though.
 
Photo2275.jpg

the latest one but not the last one
 
dl351 said:
Yup, the Shadow IV is a great knife! I'm used to getting knives that don't come with sheaths, so to get the Shadow IV with that nice leather sheath was a good change of pace. As for all around usefulness of the Shadow IV, that's why I purchased that model. I could only afford one, so I had to make sure it was a versatile one. I'm sure glad I picked one of these up before they're gone! I'm still keeping an eye on the Skinner, though.
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I am glad you like it as much as I do. You will love the skinner just as much.
 
Knice knife, deovolens. I regret not getting one of the larger OPRs, loving larger knives as I do. I wouldn't mind having one of the Project knives myself, or better yet a Shadow I, but the Shadow IV was financially as close a shave as I could muster. It's probably a more practical size anyhow.
 
missin_hobo said:
Knice knife, deovolens. I regret not getting one of the larger OPRs, loving larger knives as I do. I wouldn't mind having one of the Project knives myself, or better yet a Shadow I, but the Shadow IV was financially as close a shave as I could muster. It's probably a more practical size anyhow.
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Out of all the CRK OPR, the Shadow I is my favorite, but its not as practical as the Shadow IV. ALL the OPR are awsome.
 
All right, all right. Break it up. You Project and Shadow love birds. :D

The very practical, single guard Mountaineers aren't feeling any love. :p :D :thumbup:

mountaineer001001.jpg
 
True, the single guard is more practical, but they didn't have that with a spear point like the Shadow IV. The Mountaineer was a close second when I was deciding on the Shadow IV.
 
TAH said:
All right, all right. Break it up. You Project and Shadow love birds. :D

The very practical, single guard Mountaineers aren't feeling any love. :p :D :thumbup:

mountaineer001001.jpg
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LOL....... This is always a debate as well :D. I just prefer the spear point as I feel its a tougher more durable point. All the one piece are great. Pretty much just comes down to clip point or spear point, then what size !!!
 
Posted by dl351
True, the single guard is more practical, but they didn't have that with a spear point like the Shadow IV. The Mountaineer was a close second when I was deciding on the Shadow IV.
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Actually, the top cross-guard, as well as the serrations, may have been standard on this or that knife, but were optional on just about all of them. I've seen Project knives without serrations (!!!) and Shadow knives with single cross-guards, and there's a few other neat combinations I'm sure.

At least there used to be :(
 
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