That's interesting Eric. I have shot conventional archery for a while (mostly recurve- I briefly had a long bow and shot a compound for a little while), but never actually did any archery hunting- all my hunting has been with shotguns and rifles- and almost all of that (including deer) with shotgun. Definetely makes sense though- it sounds like the broadhead wound causes the same effect as slitting an animal and bleeding it out.
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crossbwo ownership
- Thread starter SIRGALANT
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That's interesting Eric. I have shot conventional archery for a while (mostly recurve- I briefly had a long bow and shot a compound for a little while), but never actually did any archery hunting- all my hunting has been with shotguns and rifles- and almost all of that (including deer) with shotgun. Definetely makes sense though- it sounds like the broadhead wound causes the same effect as slitting an animal and bleeding it out.
Most of my shooting has been with a recurve- my set-up is not exactly traditional (I have a Cobra sight set with an after market crosshair sight "post" (not sure of the technical term) and I very rarely miss my target altogether, especially after I got used to the sighting system. In fact, I usually need to clear arrowes from the target before I can shoot the rest, sense I group that well (well not that well, but well enough....)
Before I bought the site set, I learned the traditional way to aim a bow, and I can do that relatively well too.
Shooting without sights takes getting use to, and requires you to get used to the arrows trajectory path but with some practice it's possible to shoot reasonably well. Even sites require a level of practice.
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I hate to come in late on this post but I thought I might be of help. My daughter is an Olympic quality archer and has been shooting since she was six....She is now twenty two. Her bow cost more than most cars and she has several thousand dollars worth of doo dads on it. Her arrows are composite graphite and are matched to within 1 gram of each otherand also cost a bundle. She is dead on at 100 yards popping balloons with ease at that distance.
Now that is great but archers come to her range with crossbows, have PRACTICED ABOUT A YEAR OR TWO AND GET ALMOST THE SAME RESULTS.
They are not as consistent in their bullseyes as her bow is almost programmed to her size and strength and the crossbows are off the shelf but would do in a pinch. The crossbow guys lose their arrows more often than not so the color should be bright like someone already stated...Once they slide under the forest floor just forget about em . I have shot them and they are WAYYY cool and for a person of my hunting skills would suit me well, as a real bow and arrow woukld be as useless to me as a giant salami with fish stuck in it. MY daughter makes it look easy but I look like the guys in 'Robin Hood, Men in tights' scene where they were training the archers. Also....when the crossbow is cocked....It is REAL scary when you have a broadhead on it.......I mean REAL...
Now that is great but archers come to her range with crossbows, have PRACTICED ABOUT A YEAR OR TWO AND GET ALMOST THE SAME RESULTS.
They are not as consistent in their bullseyes as her bow is almost programmed to her size and strength and the crossbows are off the shelf but would do in a pinch. The crossbow guys lose their arrows more often than not so the color should be bright like someone already stated...Once they slide under the forest floor just forget about em . I have shot them and they are WAYYY cool and for a person of my hunting skills would suit me well, as a real bow and arrow woukld be as useless to me as a giant salami with fish stuck in it. MY daughter makes it look easy but I look like the guys in 'Robin Hood, Men in tights' scene where they were training the archers. Also....when the crossbow is cocked....It is REAL scary when you have a broadhead on it.......I mean REAL...
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Hey Longbow..
I guess I can understand that..
The reason probably being is that they are easily bought, no paperwork required and they don't take the same skill as does a bow...
That many misses and bad shots tell me these people aren't hunters, and may be just shooting them for something to do..
Who knows....
It makes us all look bad though,, thats for sure...
Thanks much
ttle
Eric
O/ST
I guess I can understand that..
The reason probably being is that they are easily bought, no paperwork required and they don't take the same skill as does a bow...
That many misses and bad shots tell me these people aren't hunters, and may be just shooting them for something to do..
Who knows....
It makes us all look bad though,, thats for sure...
Thanks much
ttle
Eric
O/ST
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You may be partially correct in your assumption....My daughters arrows are over two feet long with fiberglass bright orange and red vanes (Feathers) so they are easier to see than a short 1 foot bolt.
Both have to have an arc to get 100 yards but I notice her arrows wobble like a fishing lure as they travel thru the air while crossbow bolts have more of a straight trajectory and don't wobble as much. Also odd is that her arrows make that hiss sound you hear in Robin Hood movies while crossbow bolts, not so much...Just my .02 cents.
Both have to have an arc to get 100 yards but I notice her arrows wobble like a fishing lure as they travel thru the air while crossbow bolts have more of a straight trajectory and don't wobble as much. Also odd is that her arrows make that hiss sound you hear in Robin Hood movies while crossbow bolts, not so much...Just my .02 cents.
What rifle did you shoot it with? where did you hit it?
When my .300 wby mag or .30'06 hits it in the heart, it doesn't get back up.
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Hey Guys...
S.Brown
As long as the bullet hits the heart they usually do not go far..
However not all bullets travel through and through..
I prefer a large pass through shot that leaves a Very large hole in both sides...
A large entry and exit hole you will never get with a rifle unless it's a .50 BMG..
ttyle
Eric
O/ST
S.Brown
As long as the bullet hits the heart they usually do not go far..
However not all bullets travel through and through..
I prefer a large pass through shot that leaves a Very large hole in both sides...
A large entry and exit hole you will never get with a rifle unless it's a .50 BMG..
ttyle
Eric
O/ST
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- 2,959
Some thoughts, from a person who does not consider himself an archer in any sense of the word. This is from the standpoint of wilderness survival, rather than other issues.
I will always choose a gun and plenty of ammo as a primary hunting & defense tool. But bows are a very good thing to know about, in case plan A fails. But because of this stance, I would likely never bring a modern ready-bought bow in the woods (in addition to the firearm) in situations like this where I'd need it. So I'm looking from the standpoint of having to make the bow myself.
A simple longbow or bundle bow would be far easier and quicker to make in the field than a crossbow.
However, the crossbow is generally regarded as much easier for a neophyte (me) to use. (I always assumed this was the reason for them being banned from modern hunting. They make it too easy or unfair, which is exactly what I'd want in a survival situation.)
While the crossbow would take more effort to construct initially, I'd think it would be much easier to keep it supplied with "ammo". In one of my bow making books, the guy says he takes about 10 hours to make an arrow for his longbows. A crossbow bolt would be much shorter, meaning it would be much easier to find wood straight enough (even splitting them off a short log) and to make them straight. There's also less worry about getting them the proper stiffness matched to the bow so they fly straight.
Since crossbows can be stay cocked, they can be immediately ready if you chance upon game. I'm sure lots of modern bow hunters know the dilemma of waiting for the critter to look away so they can draw their bow without scaring it.
Even if you are an accomplished traditional archer, have you considered that you may find yourself in a survival situation with someone who isn't? Like, wife & kids, or something? A crossbow would likely be much easier for other members of the group to use effectively, thereby making the group as a whole far more productive.
For those interested in crossbows in general, I highly recommend reading this absolutely fascinating thread over on MyArmory: crossbows- power & range It's focused on historical military use, but there's a guy there making repros with well over 1000 pounds of draw weight. (reportedly some medieval examples went over 2000-3000 pounds.) He shoots them right through several layers of sheet steel, small trees, etc! Back then, they needed this penetrating power to defeat armor, but it makes you wonder what it could do to a deer with a broadhead, say, 4 or 5 inches wide!
I will always choose a gun and plenty of ammo as a primary hunting & defense tool. But bows are a very good thing to know about, in case plan A fails. But because of this stance, I would likely never bring a modern ready-bought bow in the woods (in addition to the firearm) in situations like this where I'd need it. So I'm looking from the standpoint of having to make the bow myself.
A simple longbow or bundle bow would be far easier and quicker to make in the field than a crossbow.
However, the crossbow is generally regarded as much easier for a neophyte (me) to use. (I always assumed this was the reason for them being banned from modern hunting. They make it too easy or unfair, which is exactly what I'd want in a survival situation.)
While the crossbow would take more effort to construct initially, I'd think it would be much easier to keep it supplied with "ammo". In one of my bow making books, the guy says he takes about 10 hours to make an arrow for his longbows. A crossbow bolt would be much shorter, meaning it would be much easier to find wood straight enough (even splitting them off a short log) and to make them straight. There's also less worry about getting them the proper stiffness matched to the bow so they fly straight.
Since crossbows can be stay cocked, they can be immediately ready if you chance upon game. I'm sure lots of modern bow hunters know the dilemma of waiting for the critter to look away so they can draw their bow without scaring it.
Even if you are an accomplished traditional archer, have you considered that you may find yourself in a survival situation with someone who isn't? Like, wife & kids, or something? A crossbow would likely be much easier for other members of the group to use effectively, thereby making the group as a whole far more productive.
For those interested in crossbows in general, I highly recommend reading this absolutely fascinating thread over on MyArmory: crossbows- power & range It's focused on historical military use, but there's a guy there making repros with well over 1000 pounds of draw weight. (reportedly some medieval examples went over 2000-3000 pounds.) He shoots them right through several layers of sheet steel, small trees, etc! Back then, they needed this penetrating power to defeat armor, but it makes you wonder what it could do to a deer with a broadhead, say, 4 or 5 inches wide!
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Some thoughts, from a person who does not consider himself an archer in any sense of the word. This is from the standpoint of wilderness survival, rather than other issues.
I will always choose a gun and plenty of ammo as a primary hunting & defense tool. But bows are a very good thing to know about, in case plan A fails. But because of this stance, I would likely never bring a modern ready-bought bow in the woods (in addition to the firearm) in situations like this where I'd need it. So I'm looking from the standpoint of having to make the bow myself.
A simple longbow or bundle bow would be far easier and quicker to make in the field than a crossbow.
However, the crossbow is generally regarded as much easier for a neophyte (me) to use. (I always assumed this was the reason for them being banned from modern hunting. They make it too easy or unfair, which is exactly what I'd want in a survival situation.)
While the crossbow would take more effort to construct initially, I'd think it would be much easier to keep it supplied with "ammo". In one of my bow making books, the guy says he takes about 10 hours to make an arrow for his longbows. A crossbow bolt would be much shorter, meaning it would be much easier to find wood straight enough (even splitting them off a short log) and to make them straight. There's also less worry about getting them the proper stiffness matched to the bow so they fly straight.
Since crossbows can be stay cocked, they can be immediately ready if you chance upon game. I'm sure lots of modern bow hunters know the dilemma of waiting for the critter to look away so they can draw their bow without scaring it.
Even if you are an accomplished traditional archer, have you considered that you may find yourself in a survival situation with someone who isn't? Like, wife & kids, or something? A crossbow would likely be much easier for other members of the group to use effectively, thereby making the group as a whole far more productive.
For those interested in crossbows in general, I highly recommend reading this absolutely fascinating thread over on MyArmory: crossbows- power & range It's focused on historical military use, but there's a guy there making repros with well over 1000 pounds of draw weight. (reportedly some medieval examples went over 2000-3000 pounds.) He shoots them right through several layers of sheet steel, small trees, etc! Back then, they needed this penetrating power to defeat armor, but it makes you wonder what it could do to a deer with a broadhead, say, 4 or 5 inches wide!
I agree, the firearm (rifle-shotgun-pistol) is a much better meat getter and defender than a bow. No doubt about that. However, during mass evacs, or large natural/national disaster, there is much to be said about not alerting the masses to your kill or possition, so the silent killing ability of the bow, as compared to the firearm, is a must in my opinion.
If you are not familiar with a traditional bow and the art of constructing one in the field, you will find yourself wasting precious energy and resources, because the odds of constructing a usable bow, even the bamboo emergency bow, are fairly slim and even if you do get it constructed and it works, the arrow is actually the most important part of the package. Best to get yourself the bowyers bible and start practicing now.
I think the 10 hour per arrow timeline stated includes drying time of the glues, stains and sealers. I can make a dozen arrows from scratch using a combination of bamboo garden stakes, modern fletching, nocks, points, modern tapering tools and adhesives, in under 6 hours and they fly very well from my modern traditional equipment and are nearly indestructible. As part of my evac equipment, I have a small bag that includes all of the materials and tools I'll need to make about 3 dozen arrows from natural materials found in the bush. I also carry 2 extra strings and duct tape, just in case there is a need to make a bow in a hurry.
The modern crossbow cannot fire wooden arrows. There is so much force placed on the arrow, that wooden arrows can explode. However, if you have practiced, you could probably make a crossbow, if you can find the proper materials.
Yes, I have given thought to getting one and when I ran it by the wife, she reminded me that she is a better shot than I am. A title that she earned when we were loosing arrows with our traditional equipment at a pine cone that was just about 80 yards away. She nailed it 3 out of 5 arrows and I only hit it 2 times. Nuff said!
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A few random crossbow thoughts:
I've occasionally thought one of those cheap pistol crossbows might be handy to have for taking rabbits and such. The bow part detaches so the whole thing shouldn't take up much space in a pack. No gunshots to freak out the sheep, either.
Crossbows are just cool! Bowtech came out with an awesome crossbow this year, the Stryker. The specs are impressive.
Ron Hood shows how to make a crossbow in the field in the Woodsmaster 6: Primative Weapons.
-- FLIX
I've occasionally thought one of those cheap pistol crossbows might be handy to have for taking rabbits and such. The bow part detaches so the whole thing shouldn't take up much space in a pack. No gunshots to freak out the sheep, either.
Crossbows are just cool! Bowtech came out with an awesome crossbow this year, the Stryker. The specs are impressive.
Ron Hood shows how to make a crossbow in the field in the Woodsmaster 6: Primative Weapons.
-- FLIX
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Yes, this is a valid point in that type of situation. That wasn't the only kind I was thinking of though. Besides, in a true SHTF scenario, some may be inclined to ignore those pesky laws about "silencers" on firearms.
It's great that your wife is also skilled in these arts, but that doesn't negate my comments about a crossbow being easier to use for "the average joe". Especially considering your comments about the "masses" above that you might encounter in an emergency. You never know who you may need to team up with.
I've made my own bows from white oak, osage orange, and yes, even split bamboo. That was a long time ago, though, hence my comments about not being an archer (now). But you are correct that these are things you should practice before you really need them, like everything else it would seem.
And yes, I also agree that the arrow is the most important part. And it sure seems to me it would be much easier to make good arrows that are only a third as long as you'd need from a long bow.
Take a look at the link I posted above. Wooden shafts were used on crossbow bolts for centuries. Including the ones fired with enough force to imbed themselves into stone walls. I doubt modern hunting crossbows can compete with that level of power.
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The problem with modern equiptment is too much tuning and hoping it stays tuned when you bang it around in the woods. Trad archery equipt is sooo simpilistic (no sights or other gizmos to worry about). But it takes much practice.
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Eric (Normark),
I was thinking "slow" as in shots per minute not feet per second.
I know with my recurve I can have another arrow ready or downrange really quick, and I can move while I do it. I could be wrong but I've always imagined reloading a crossbow as something done while stopped.
Impressive speeds though. They are flat shooting weapons that's for sure. Mac
I was thinking "slow" as in shots per minute not feet per second.
I know with my recurve I can have another arrow ready or downrange really quick, and I can move while I do it. I could be wrong but I've always imagined reloading a crossbow as something done while stopped.
Impressive speeds though. They are flat shooting weapons that's for sure. Mac
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Hey Guys...
Sir..
what do you mean they said "No" ??
Who said No about crossbows,, explain please..
Pict..
Yaaa I realize what you meant now, after re-reading my post..
You are correct... They are slow to reload...
After I shot my first bear, I was so excited,, I lowered my bow, got out of my stand and found out that my big swamped rubber boots didn't fit the stirrup..Early I had cocked the bow with my hiking boot on before I got dressed in my hunting clothes further up the trail...
Well I kicked my boot off, it went flying, I wasn't paying attention,, so now I've got a downed bear 10 yards away,, one boot on,,not sure where the other one went and had to hobble over to the bear to make sure it was dead...
Once I checked the bear I started looking for my boot..I found it 10-15 minutes later in a big area of ferns...
When I got home I ordered a larger stirrup for the bow..
Longbow..
I agree with you 100% on your last post...
Very true....
ttyle
Eric
O/ST
Sir..
what do you mean they said "No" ??
Who said No about crossbows,, explain please..
Pict..
Yaaa I realize what you meant now, after re-reading my post..
You are correct... They are slow to reload...
After I shot my first bear, I was so excited,, I lowered my bow, got out of my stand and found out that my big swamped rubber boots didn't fit the stirrup..Early I had cocked the bow with my hiking boot on before I got dressed in my hunting clothes further up the trail...
Well I kicked my boot off, it went flying, I wasn't paying attention,, so now I've got a downed bear 10 yards away,, one boot on,,not sure where the other one went and had to hobble over to the bear to make sure it was dead...
Once I checked the bear I started looking for my boot..I found it 10-15 minutes later in a big area of ferns...
When I got home I ordered a larger stirrup for the bow..
Longbow..
I agree with you 100% on your last post...
Very true....
ttyle
Eric
O/ST