Crosscut Saw Thread

Square_peg said:
Great photo, Ernest. Yeah, I guess with no radius and no rakers a skilled filer could do the job.
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In fact the doctor was at the moment of the photo demonstrating the principle of the racker tooth by scratching across his support beam with his saw file the tracks severing the fibers to be cleared away by the racker. The tooth pattern he is using is one he claims to have developed which cuts on push and pull strokes both for rip cuts and cross cut, called the "Devils Tooth". The demonstration was geared towards woodworking, or carpentry and furniture making where a radius on a saw is not usually used though there were some tree cutters there with saws he said he could do little with because of the poor quality.

Here is a closer view of the tooth pattern on a smaller saw. You can make out the rakers on either side of the deep gullets.


E.DB.
 
Well I was just given a 4' buck saw made around 1920. I haven't found any manufacture stamp on it. I plan to take the handle off and give it several coats of linseed oil or tung oil. It is rusty and would like to clean it up and get it sharpened and set. What is the best way to clean it up and how nice a finish should I try to get? I know there is pitting. Also one of the teeth is broken, it has 3 cutters then a raker.
 
garry3 said:
They are fresh Square peg, I don't believe they have been used at all. The lance tooth ones are 5" and the champion or tuttle is 5' 6". Small fellers.
Anyone know the age of these Disston's ?
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Perforated lance-tooth was a later design so they're not early Disstons.

I might be interested in one of those perf lances if you find yourself with too many.
 
Ernest DuBois said:
The tooth pattern he is using is one he claims to have developed which cuts on push and pull strokes both for rip cuts and cross cut, called the "Devils Tooth".
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That would be very handy. In Japanese tradition this saw looks to be built to cut on the pull more than the push. The slant in the teeth look like a pull saw. And there is only a push raker on every other set of teeth.

This smaller saw has 5 teeth per set. The earlier one had 3 teeth per set. I can't tell for certain but in the earlier photo it looks like the rakers are only designed to cut on the pull stroke.

I like my pull saws but I don't think they utilize human power as efficiently as push saws. Pull saws can be thinner so they have less wood to remove. To cut on the push the blade must be thicker, and may be stressed to remain rigid. A push saw uses power from the whole body, from the legs up to the shoulders. A pull saw relies more on upper body strength. A two-man felling crosscut saw can be thin, as each man's work is done on the pull stroke and still the saw can cut in both directions. One man saws and bucking saws are thicker to cut on both the push and pull.

Ernest, did you have the opportunity to see the thickness of those saws? Were they thick enough to remain rigid on the push stroke?
 
Square peg, you are probably right in your analysis, to be honest I was not paying much attention to this part of the demo as my interest was in other things he had to say and show. In a way bringing the good doctor into the cross-cut topic was a provocation and yet the focus was meant to be very narrow instead of a wide ranging comparison, so I'll leave it at that other than to say this doctor himself also has a certain bias in favor of push saws like you do, I can't imagine why. To answer your question Square peg - and in Japanese woodworking it is normal or typical or very common to make use of square pegs and not round - I was struck by how thick the blade of the saw from the first picture was, appearing so chunky to my eye, though I would have to say I have always seen these saws as hybrids and not something I would call Japanese.

E.DB.
 
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Here are a few pictures of the saw that was given to me, I found someone that can sharpen and set the teeth. Now I'm wondering if it is worth cleaning and sharpening due to rust and pitting, what do you think?
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I'd give it a day in the electrolysis tank, stone away the worst of the pitting on teeth and rakers down to clean metal, joint down to clean metal, and file it up. It will never be a pretty saw, but can be made to cut. Expect the filer to charge more for the extra work,
 
Thanks for the advice, I cleaned the saw up and it is very pitted but the teeth are excellent. I found someone locally to do the sharpening and setting, he said for the age of the saw it looks like it has hardly been used and it won't take any extra work to get it sharp. I will post pics when I get it back and get a chance to try it.
 
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[/URL][/IMG]Had an opportunity to file up a Simonds #325. Sure wish they still made saws like that (and for the old timey price). Good steel, quality grind.

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Nice work, Trailtime. The swage of the rakers looks just right. And still lots of tooth left above the perforation. Hard to be certain from the photo but it looks like a taper-ground saw. I bet it cuts real nice.
 
Not exactly sure what this is. Got it for pocket change at an estate sale. 2½ in. wide, 3½ ft. long with an unfamiliar tooth style.

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trailtime said:
Champion tooth with the rakers filed down to the nub. That saw's seen some use.
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That's the thing though, the rakers seem to be in fine shape. I know it's a champion tooth, I meant if it was a crosscut or some sort of one-man felling saw. Since i've never seen a one-man crosscut that slim before (2.5" wide) It almost looks like it could have been a 2-man felling saw that was cut in half or something. The tooth pattern is wider, shorter and a lot more spaced out than a usual champion tooth and the gullets are pointed instead of round. Wasn't sure if it was a normal crosscut or if it was designed for some specific use.
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Same length as a one-man crosscut, but much slimmer with a fatter tooth design. Seemed unusual to me. Are you sure the rakers are filed down? I think they're supposed to look like that. Then again, you could be right, it's possible that it's just been used and filed so much that it completely transformed the tooth pattern altogether. But after looking at it closely, it appears to be in ok condition and judging by the teeth, the rakers seem to be made like that, pointed instead of swaged at the end. But I couldn't say for sure.
 
I'd just say it's a ribbon saw, champion or tuttle tooth, that had broke in half or been cut, and which has seen a particular lot of *filing* over it's life.
 
Is the suggestion here that the shape of the teeth is the result of improper filing? I see definite intension behind the configuration and form with the racker teeth not being peened but under-cut with a round file. Whether or not it is standard or effective I couldn't say.

E.DB.
 
G-pig said:
I'd just say it's a ribbon saw, champion or tuttle tooth, that had broke in half or been cut, and which has seen a particular lot of *filing* over it's life.
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This is right. Those curves beside the rakers are the former gullets of the saw.
 
The right side of the saw, with handle holes and loop handle notch, shows the original width of the felling saw. That saw has seen an extreme amount of filing. However, if the filer had lowered the original gullet depths relative to the lowered teeth and rakers, there wouldn't be much back to the saw at all. That saw has reached the end of its useful life and is ready for resurrection as knife steel.
 
Yep, makes sense. In that case, it HAS seen a lot of use. Time to scrap this one and use it for knife steel...
 
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