Crosscut Saw Thread

Square_peg said:
I found this underbuck tool at an antique store today for $4. I can't even find one on the internet to compare prices. It's in as new condition and doesn't appear to have ever been driven into wood. I'm pretty sure they didn't know what it was.

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Dang. That was priced right.:thumbsup:
 
Square_peg said:
I found this underbuck tool at an antique store today for $4. I can't even find one on the internet to compare prices. It's in as new condition and doesn't appear to have ever been driven into wood. I'm pretty sure they didn't know what it was.

20171028_195507-1.jpg

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20171028_195613-1.jpg
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Nice score! Fitting :thumbsup:
 
The supplier of that parts list, Reid Tool Supply Co., is no longer in business. I found the company who bought them out and last time I checked they still carried the sheave (the critical part). I'll see if I can dig up a link when I get home to my desktop computer.
 
Correction/addition. That pulley is now available at Amazon. That thing was near impossible to find a few years ago.
 
Some more stuff related to underbucking. Purely academic/interesting to me. I have no underbucking experience using a crosscut.


Ebay listing for a Dugan undercutter:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dugan-Unde...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


Using an axe handle:

Discussion on under bucking:
http://www.crosscutsawyer.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=675


And what must be the holy grail of undercutters:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mallory-Po...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Picture of above preserved on pinterest:


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/306737424610504573/


Bob
 
I'll give you a pro tip on using the underbuck. The Forest Service website explains how best to align your undercut with the top cut. But that's the wrong way to go about. I set up the bottom cut first and cut just far enough to set a good kerf. Then I start the top cut, easy to align with your bottom cut. Work the top cut just until the first hint of bind. Then go back to your bottom cut to finish. Works like a charm.

In setting up the bottom cut I first decide where I want cut. Then I hold up my axe with the pocket underbuck attached and see where I would ideally like the underbuck to be placed. With the underbuck located I check where the axe bit needs to be set to achieve that cut. Then I set the axe. I might make several attempts before I get it just where I want it. Lastly I adjust the location of the underbuck along the axe handle until it's exactly where I want it.

Using this method it is a pure joy to underbuck.

For axe selection choose an axe with at least a 33" haft. 36" is better. It gives you more spring, more flexibility and more space for the saw between the axe handle and the tree. A thin bitted axe will set better and easier than a thick bitted axe. If you have the luxury of bringing a dedicated underbucking axe then consider a fiberglass handled axe with concave beveled bit!

A concave bevel is miserable to buck or fell with because it's so sticky. But it's that stickiness that makes it such a great underbuck.

 
Square_peg said:
A thin bitted axe will set better and easier than a thick bitted axe. If you have the luxury of bringing a dedicated underbucking axe then consider a fiberglass handled axe with concave beveled bit!

A concave bevel is miserable to buck or fell with because it's so sticky. But it's that stickiness that makes it such a great underbuck.
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IDK, but it occurred to me that a double bit axe could be set up with both bevels?


Bob
 
rjdankert said:
IDK, but it occurred to me that a double bit axe could be set up with both bevels?
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It's a good observation. The thing is, when you're using a crosscut saw in the field you are invariably driving wedges, too. But if one in your party has a poll axe then a double bit beveled as you suggest would be a great idea.
 
Why not buy a council DB, hollow grind one bit, convex the other and weld a striking face to it, like say a piece of gently curved leaf spring to the side of the eye, that way you get a wedge pounder, an axe and an underbuck axe. And you don't destroy a vintage head doing it
 
Great video.

Have to wonder why the top was wedged. That kerf should have been opening at the bottom and the saw falling free. If the bottom wasn't opening then it didn't need to be underbucked. And it might have opened if the top wasn't wedged.

Then there's the misaligned cut, no doubt from trying to match the bottom cut to the top cut instead of the other way around. Then he cuts 4" past the top cut.

Too many errors there to say which was most critical. Who was the sawyer in charge?
 
Not my video, I just posted it as a warning when using underbuckers. Given the number of people standing around on the off side, someone should've noticed that the sawyer had crossed his kerf and called a halt. Also, for a tree that large, the sawyer should've offset his undercut by at least another inch or two.
 
In the 1950's we were still using crosscut saws for felling. Chainsaws were still big, heavy, and problematic. The first power saw I was allowed to use was a Wright reciprocating saw, not a chain saw. In felling with a crosscut you almost never had to underbuck if you knew what you were doing felling large trees. If we did need to underbuck (because some kid like me was not paying attention) we just used the butt end of a DB haft to rest a one man crosscut on. I never heard of a underbucking tool until much later. Now trail work with blow down is a different story, and I believe this is where the underbucking tool came into being.
Back to the DB haft method. We carried a special DB with one bit sharpened to stick and the other bit sharpened to swamp out around the trees to be felled. For underbucking you stuck the bit so the crosscut would ride only on the butt end of the haft. This of course left grooves in the haft, but only where your hand was stationary, not where your hand needed to slide when you needed the swamping out bit. We also always carried a SB rafter to drive wedges.
 
I always opt for the minimum number of tools -- crosscut saw, axe, wedges. However, not everyone can stick an axe tight enough to act as an underbucker. I've seen a lot of people fail at setting the blade of an axe, as it takes a good wrist snap to sink it deep enough to hold. Punky wood is also a drawback. Just about anybody can drive a steel underbucker into a log.
 
Whether or not to bring an underbuck also depends on how many people are in your group, how much you have to carry and whether it's a back country or front country trail (close to the trailhead). We'll often spend several days to a week working at one front country location. We cache our tools on the mountain and go home for the night. The next day everyone has light packs and it's no big deal for someone to carry up a full size underbuck tool. On a back country multi-day work party where you're living out of your pack I would never carry more than a pocket underbuck.

After a windstorm, icestorm or fire you can have hundreds of trees down on a section of trail. Many will be elevated and an underbuck can make them much easier to clear.

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