CS 4-Max vs ER RAO

I want one of each.

But that shouldn't be a surprise.

When the blade breaks before the lock fails, you've achieved your goal. Anything beyond that is just for fun!
 
A pin? Really? I guess the only way to defeat a Tri-ad lock is to cheat. Any dillwad can drill a hole through a folder and pin it. Why not weld the pin in place? Oh wait, I forgot, fixed blade knives exist.
 
marcinek said:
Well, it is CS testing its knives vs competitors' knives. That's enough bias to discredit the videos from the outset, regardless of their outcome.

That said, it will be interesting to see if people get as bothered by the CS vs "comical" ER as they did when it was CS vs. respected CRK.

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There is one useful piece of information to be gained from these tests. The relative lock strength of a number of CS competitor's in a reasonably repeatable way.
 
I always watch the test videos. I don't see any thing wrong with the tests. I don't think cold steel cheats in these tests.

They make sharp, strong folders. Thinner grinds than many I've owned.

Their triad lock is special.



Their grinds and steel are not the strongest in the world. But for my folders, I'm not chopping or batoning.

Most of the tests they show I would never use a folder for. People don't like the company founder, or their marketing. That's fine.

The tests they show are repeatable. Completely abusive, but repeatable.


You could buy any knife you wanted and bust it up using the same tests. Shock (over strike, spine impacts), weight. Those test, in my experience favor Cold Steel, because they have a whole line up of knives that are designed to survive just such tests.


I've owned many knives. I've not owned any that remained as solid as Cold Steel's folders.

I've owned a lot that wiggled, got blade play in every direction. Many were never as solid in lock up even when brand new, as any of my CS folders after decades of use.

I've carried and used Spyderco, Kershaw, Buck, Gerber, Hinderer, Chris Reeve Sebenza, and many others (including cold steel) I've handled many ZT, Strider and many others. Including customs.


I don't get all twisted out of shape by the tests.


Just like when the Hockey Mask destroyed thousands and thousands of dollars worth of fixed blades. People lost their minds because their brand did poorly (or loved it when their brands did well).

I watched them all.



One thing I'm not particularly enamored of is Cold Steel's warranty. Not a great one, when you've owned no questions asked warrantied knives.
 
Bigfattyt said:
One thing I'm not particularly enamored of is Cold Steel's warranty. Not a great one, when you've owned no questions asked warrantied knives.
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I've had good experience with CS's warranty tho. Whenever i get a knife with off grind or with any issue, i will send it to back CS if if the knives are purchased from other retailed, and they always send me a replacement. My replacement usually come within 2 weeks of shipping the knife to CS, probably because i live in CA, but the turnaround time is still impressive. I had to send the Swift back twice due to the broken spring(poor design IMO), and the customer service was kind enough to send me a shipping label to cover for the shipping the 2nd time.
 
I've had a return or two, I was not as impressed.

They do have occasional turds they run with known issues. They wait till it blows up, then sell them at a discount occasionally.




Black Rhino was one.

The first edition of the Pocket Bushman is another.
 
hermit dave said:
A pin? Really? I guess the only way to defeat a Tri-ad lock is to cheat. Any dillwad can drill a hole through a folder and pin it. Why not weld the pin in place? Oh wait, I forgot, fixed blade knives exist.
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Well, the RAO was around before the Tri-Ad lock, so how was it cheating?
Trying to beat a lock that didn't exist yet?
Does Extrema Ratio have a secret time machine? Is that what you're saying? ;)

PS- not sure you used a big enough font. :D
 
Part 3 is here:

[video=youtube;swIFqGBEiIA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swIFqGBEiIA[/video]

Not sure what else people can argue on. Move on, live your life, have a great weekend :cool:
 
DPC said:
Not sure what you mean.

Chris Reeve's Sebenza has always had a reputation of being overpriced mediocrity and Extrema Ratio has always been respected.

I know it's not aparent to us knife enthusiasts but generally speaking that's how it works.

People knew what was coming with the Sebenza test and fully expected the results, the big surprise was the RAO, which had a reputation for being the strongest folder.
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Sensational!
Now ER better step up their game :-) Maybe move the pivot more back so it doesn't break through the frame?
Better materials?
Or more pins?

Not that it matters for any kind of use, what does everybody think how much the 4max could take if pushed harder?
1000 or even more?
 
Jens Schuetz said:
Sensational!
Now ER better step up their game :-) Maybe move the pivot more back so it doesn't break through the frame?
Better materials?
Or more pins?

Not that it matters for any kind of use, what does everybody think how much the 4max could take if pushed harder?
1000 or even more?
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I think ithe 4max can go 1000lb. Demko mentioned that the blade usually breaks before the lock. Demko mentioned that that's the reason why they add the Ti liner to the 4max, instead of pure g-10, so the blade can break before the stop pin shear off the handle.
 
I used to run a material testing lab, and from the standpoint of the design of experiment, the CS testing is valid. Now, whether or not the stress that the lock is exposed to has any real-life equivalency; that will vary from one user to the next. CS may seem over the top much of the time, but there's no denying that the Triad-Lock beats most other formats.

Now, does CS have a problem with quality control and ease of release on some Triads? Yup. I have several CS knives and none make their way into my pocket for EDC carry. Having the strongest lock on the face of the Earth carries little importance in my selection of a daily carry sharp-edged pocket tool.
 
Do I need a knife with a lock this strong? No. No I do not. But what a feat of engineering. That's why I want it.
 
Scurvy092 said:
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Still dont know.

That's not my oppinion, that's the general view of most people. CRK has a so-so reputation and Extrema Ratio a pretty high one, regardless of that reflecting reality or not.
 
WadeWilson said:
Do I need a knife with a lock this strong? No. No I do not. But what a feat of engineering. That's why I want it.
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That's why I love the Voyager, it isnt for the lock, but for the combination of lock, price, weight, size etc...

Honestly, at the price of the CS4 I'd seriously consider a Demko instead.
 
CS makes a great lock. No question. However, I find these videos classless and some of the commentary embarrassing.
 
Armadew said:
CS makes a great lock. No question. However, I find these videos classless and some of the commentary embarrassing.
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I mostly agree... I find it amusing that Lynn Thompson's rep continues to suffer as a result of these tests (and other "antics") but Demko's rep (probably deservedly) does not!
 
I don't care for corporate drama in any way.

I feel the people that take all these antics at heart are as bad as the people that go wild with how awesome CS is.

Controversy is just free publicity and almost everyone is falling for it!!!!
 
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