CS Beaver Tail

Ryanol said:
Can't speak for others but it's influenced me. Also don't forget that a large portion of the views will be from non members that might not take the time to read through the thread. All they're gonna do is click the first result, see a broken knife and be outta here.

Given the 4 -8 dollars (including shipping) it probably would cost to replace that knife I can tell you what side of the decision I would come down on.

Alright look at it this way:
Cold Steel spends hundreds of thousands to build their reputation, the willingness to let even the tiniest fraction of it go over 4 bucks is flat crazy and IMHO stupid from a business perspective.
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Multiply that by thousands every month, and then look at it from a large company's perspective. Sure, you could replace it, then next month, Pantucci sends in a 100 dollar CS knife that he decided should chop through a cinder block and then pry apart car doors. Do they owe him another knife again. When do they draw the line. We all love the companies that replace a knife we expect them to repair for a REAL flaw. I lose respect for companies that throw free replacements out to every idiot that damages one, unlesss that's their stated warranty. Otherwise you begin to wonder how much more you pay for their knives due to poorly managed warranty depts.
 
I look at it just like I would a rebate - most of the benefits are positive and the negative (amount of people that will actually take the time to send in a 30 dollar knife) are slim.

I also see it at as a touchpoint for elevating a simple consumer to an influencer or evangelist.

BTW I would definitely put a letter in that firmly "educated" the consumer about the proper use and warranties.
 
jimh0220 said:
Multiply that by thousands every month, and then look at it from a large company's perspective....
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Agree. I am sure that guarantees and broken product replacement is a significant cost to any knife manufacturer. And for CS it is probably even bigger than average due to their aggressive marketing message. So that affects their profits, or prices - depending on your individual point of view. So they have to draw the line somewhere. They did that. And even went for the trouble of putting it in writing. Do they have to make an exception for one customer who did not bother to read it? Or who decided to take the risk? Then what would be the point of drawing it?
I believe that you have to stand behind what you say and what you write. There would be exceptions - but there should be at least an excuse for it! Here is plain abuse and an employee who dealt with it did not have anything to take to whoever is authorized to make these exceptions in CS.
 
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Cold Kill said:
Bushman wins. The Bushman warranty also wins. "No questions asked" replacement is a win in my book.
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I actually tried batoning my Bushman. (I know many poeple say batoning is "unnecessary" but I still practice this skill occasionally just because you never really know what kind of crapluck situation you'll end up in). Anyhow, the Bushman did work and held up fine but I didn't like how it flexed to conform to the log's grain. It sorta bent around knots instead of plowing through. It's nice to know it'll bend a lot before it ever breaks but... it's just not my favorite hard use & abuse knife.
 
jimh0220 said:
The productis a consumer level utility blade. You overused and blatently abused it. I can take a Benchmade, Busse, or whatever other knife brand on the the higher priced end of the spectrum and abuse it blatantly, and it WILL fail. They are never indestructible by their nature.
The Beaver tail is a decent knife, FOR ITS DESIGNED PURPOSE. Calling it crappy to try to defend your dumbass move will not change that you made a dumbasss move. Own it, and suck it up like a man instead of trying place the blame elsewhere.
Quit your whining.
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It is marketed as a camp knife. The OP used it as such, and it completely failed at doing so. If you bought an ATV, took it on a trail and it died and caught fire without even making it anywhere, would you not be pissed? He used the knife for what it was marketed as, and while common logic would dictate the marketing is just a total lie, the company had no right to just tell him "Sucks to be you, you shouldn't have done that." If I buy a product from a reputable company and use the product for what it was supposedly made for, you bet I will raise hell over the product completely failing at so.
 
What part of 'inappropriate use' don't people understand. As a full flat grind, it is clearly a 'slicer', being only 2.5mm thick at the spine. Second, being a rather thin stainless blade, it is going to be brittle, regardless of who made it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that pounding it through a log, is going to damage the blade. Finally, advertizing claims are just that, claims, not proof. To all those that believe advertizing claims are 100% accurate, well, I have a slightly used bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.
 
LIGHT camp use/outdoor knife doesnt even suggest to be a knife to baton with.slicers are slicers.
 
the knife was abused no arguing that point.

but if I am a knifemaker/manufacturer I'd much rather spend the 5 bucks and have a thread like this:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...my-110-Back-Buck-has-awesome-Customer-Service.

than this one.

To everyone that says "rules are rules" that's fine and dandy - I suppose you feel Delta was in the right for charging the Soldiers returning from Afghanistan $2800 for bringing to many bags back right? I mean it was their written policy afterall. (obviously Delta doubled back on that one)

Good customer service is about common sense - Say you take your kid to Mickey D's and they get a ice cream cone....upon receipt their so excited that they dance around and PLOP the ice cream falls out of the ground onto the floor right in front of the registers...even that sixteen year old pimple faced kid knows that while your child is at fault- it's in Mickey D's best interest to mop up the floor and give the kid a new cone.
 
Ryanol said:
Say you take your kid to Mickey D's and they get a ice cream cone....upon receipt their so excited that they dance around and PLOP the ice cream falls out of the ground onto the floor right in front of the registers...even that sixteen year old pimple faced kid knows that while your child is at fault- it's in Mickey D's best interest to mop up the floor and give the kid a new cone.
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A kid we can excuse. Someone with 25 years experience of buying Cold Steel products should know better.
We can debate the wisdom of CS CS (:D) all we like, this is what they did. Judging from the responses in this thread, a lot of people seem to agree with them. Of the the ones that don't, many hated Cold Steel to begin with.
 
philwar said:
A kid we can excuse. Someone with 25 years experience of buying Cold Steel products should know better.
We can debate the wisdom of CS CS (:D) all we like, this is what they did. Judging from the responses in this thread, a lot of people seem to agree with them. Of the the ones that don't, many hated Cold Steel to begin with.
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I've voiced the opinion before that i have no great love for Cold Steel.
Even i agree with their decision in this case.
Always read the warranty, no matter how many knives or how long you've been buying them from any company. Dont think the description the makers/seller put on the knife will be considered warranty or save you from yourself
If you want to be an idiot and abuse your knives, spend the money and buy knives from makers who have the type of warranty that covers stupidity. Your choices will be few and quite expensive. But at least you won't be compelled to post on the internet to call them out over something that is clearly your own fault.
 
Ryanol said:
.....
To everyone that says "rules are rules" that's fine and dandy - I suppose you feel Delta was in the right for charging the Soldiers returning from Afghanistan $2800 for bringing to many bags back right?....
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I have not heard that story!
Do you mean that a soldier returning from Afghanistan was bringing so many bags with him that the airline tried to charge $2800 for baggage overweight? That sound gross - what was in these bags? Or were that a few soldiers and this overweight for all of them together? I understand that you talked about the principle. But that is kind of mind-bogging to imagine a soldier with such a luggage! Could you please set the record straight?
 
ocnLogan said:
Just curious here. But if he didn't mention that they offered him a discount... how do you know about it?
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I am very close to the company and the crew. I was working the Cold Steel Challenge this weekend. I was at the office on Monday. I heard about the email that was sent in response to the damaged Beavertail- basically the same as the first post from Pantucci. This was followed by a few emails parroting his opinion and attitude from folks who are members of some bushcraft forum- I will visit them later :)

I know that it is pretty much standard procedure to offer the end user a discount on a new knife, even if it was damaged by outside of the warranty. CS has never, to my knowledge, simply said "too bad, so sad" to anyone with a damaged product.

We got into a conversation about batoning (sigh, again), and this knife that was so obviously damaged by the batoning, not due to any manufacturing defect. I am just amazed that even though Pantucci admits that the damage was his fault, and CS went so far as to offer a discount for a new model in spite of the fact that the damage was not their fault, its just not good enough. He expects them to give him something for free even though the error is clearly laid at his feet. Where is the line drawn between a company servicing its customers, and that same customer taking advantage of that company?
 
Don't know how I've got so caught up in this thread but I think your question comes down to perspective. I can certainly see it from both sides but from experience I can tell you that future customers of cold steel that come across this thread(bladeforumers not withstAnding) won't invest the time to figure out which side - they'll simply see a broken blade and a unsatisfied customer.
 
Ryanol said:
Don't know how I've got so caught up in this thread but I think your question comes down to perspective. I can certainly see it from both sides but from experience I can tell you that future customers of cold steel that come across this thread(bladeforumers not withstAnding) won't invest the time to figure out which side - they'll simply see a broken blade and a unsatisfied customer.
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I think it is important to have conscious, respect and self-respect. Not only company should have it. All of us should.
At least that is my view. If I do something wrong - I do not go to squeeze my piece out of retailer/manufacturer no matter what. It should be fair - no matter how much leverage internet gives.
If you believe that it makes business sense to forget about rules and fair/unfair and give somebody what he asks so he just shuts up - you might be right. In very many cases that business sense rules. But if I were in CS I would probably not do it - because of false feeling of self-respect, feeling right... ;)
That is for sure very difficult choice. Or simple - if it does not involve yourself, your pride for the product you produce, the line you have drawn on the sand, your rules...
 
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Cold Kill said:
It is marketed as a camp knife. The OP used it as such, and it completely failed at doing so. If you bought an ATV, took it on a trail and it died and caught fire without even making it anywhere, would you not be pissed? He used the knife for what it was marketed as, and while common logic would dictate the marketing is just a total lie, the company had no right to just tell him "Sucks to be you, you shouldn't have done that." If I buy a product from a reputable company and use the product for what it was supposedly made for, you bet I will raise hell over the product completely failing at so.
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Camp knife is a vague term that usually refers to cutting food, cleaning fish, whittling fuzz sticks, cutting stirng, etc. NO BATONNING, on the other hand, is crystal clear. He was a DA who CANNOT READ OR COMPREHEND THIS SHOULD NOT BE REWARDED FOR STUPIDITY! This is the kind of idiot who sues McDonalds over hot coffee.

People with a f-ing sense of entitlement nauseate me!
 
Cold Kill said:
It is marketed as a camp knife. The OP used it as such, and it completely failed at doing so. If you bought an ATV, took it on a trail and it died and caught fire without even making it anywhere, would you not be pissed? He used the knife for what it was marketed as, and while common logic would dictate the marketing is just a total lie, the company had no right to just tell him "Sucks to be you, you shouldn't have done that." If I buy a product from a reputable company and use the product for what it was supposedly made for, you bet I will raise hell over the product completely failing at so.
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Common sense has nothing to do with it? I'm not a huge batoning fan, but I know the technique and I understand that it's a reasonably accepted survival/outdoors skill. No-one in their right mind batons with a 2.5MM stock, stainless steel, extremely deep high flat ground knife. Physics will always win.

Well, as is said, "Common sense is not so common."
 
Cold Kill said:
It is marketed as a camp knife. The OP used it as such, and it completely failed at doing so. If you bought an ATV, took it on a trail and it died and caught fire without even making it anywhere, would you not be pissed? He used the knife for what it was marketed as, and while common logic would dictate the marketing is just a total lie, the company had no right to just tell him "Sucks to be you, you shouldn't have done that." If I buy a product from a reputable company and use the product for what it was supposedly made for, you bet I will raise hell over the product completely failing at so.
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Despite what the marketing says, If you didnt read the warranty, were using the ATV outside the parameters of the stated warranty and that happened you would have noone to blame but yourself. No company should have to subsidise ignorance, nor should they be effectively blackmailed into doing so.

DngRuss1 said:
We got into a conversation about batoning (sigh, again), and this knife that was so obviously damaged by the batoning, not due to any manufacturing defect. I am just amazed that even though Pantucci admits that the damage was his fault, and CS went so far as to offer a discount for a new model in spite of the fact that the damage was not their fault, its just not good enough. He expects them to give him something for free even though the error is clearly laid at his feet. Where is the line drawn between a company servicing its customers, and that same customer taking advantage of that company?
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This is Correct thinking.....
 
I note that Pantucci has not responded to DngrRuss1 and his revelation that he was offered a discount on a new product - EVEN THOUGH COLD STEEL WAS BLAMELESS in this. An omission like that comes very close to lying, and at the least demonstrates an intent to slander Cold Steel where there was ZERO ground for it.
 
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