CTS-XHP/Duratech 20CV?

Buck_110 said:
Tap water will more often than not, be basic rather than acidic, as chlorine is used at water treatment facilities.

Onions are very acidic.
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I live in a rural area....we have our own water well...no chlorine here....see what I mean....there are a ton of variables that could happen here....

Just go out and use the hell out of this knife!!

Rick
 
flatgrinder said:
Duratech 20CV has better edge retention and takes a sharper edge. It has a lot more vanadium carbides.

CTS-XHP is just newer and "the fad steel of the month" so it has a higher premium right now. It's basically an improved 440C.

Over time, for people who actually use their knives ... Duratech 20CV is better for slicing.

Just my 2 cents. :)
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Aren't you thinking of CTS-40CP, the powdered version of 440C?
CTS-XHP does not have anything to do with 440C, it has 1.6% carbon and 16% chromium. 20Cv has slightly more carbon but also more chromium...
 
upsidedownviking said:
More than just tap water could be the culprit acid wise...
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I didn't cut into the onion itself. When the onion arrives, it comes with a lot of root and a lot of excess "skin" at the top, both of which are completely dry.

I also did the "test" after removing the rust with Brasso and washing it with dish detergent and water.

But I agree that mere photos aren't solid proof as I could have dropped vinegar onto the blade of the XM-18 and bottled water on the ZT 0551(which I am more than pleased with):rolleyes:. If there is a trusted individual that Rick would take the word of who is willing to do the same test, I would happily send my knife out.

Of course Rick, I would prefer to send it to you directly. You could even charge me for the service if you wish.

I'm not trying to spread lies, propaganda, slander, or otherwise engage in stupidity. If my recent activities came across as an attempt at such, then I apologize. I'm merely a customer who has concerns about his product and would like assurances that I am not imagining a problem that does not exist. I just want someone qualified to look at the knife and tell me what the problem is, like if the previous owner took a blowtorch to the blade thus ruining the heat treat.
 
Buck_110 said:
DuraTech 20CV has nine times more vanadium, and 20% more moly than CTS-XHP. It also contains tungsten, whereas CTS-XHP does not.
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I was mostly saying that CTS-XHP has nothing to do with 440C.

If you want to be thorough, why don't you post the full composition of 20CV and XHP?

CTS-XHP: 1.60 C, 0.50 Mn, 0.40 Si, 16.00 Cr, 0.35 Ni, 0.80 Mo, 0.45 V
Duratech: 1.90 C, 0.30 Mn, 0.30 Si, 20.00 Cr, , 1.00 Mo, 4.00 V, 0.60 W
(BTW, Carpenter has a steel that is equivalent to Duratech, CTS-204P).



 
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Noctis, PM Rick or Rob and share your concerns with them. If you're really worried there might be something wrong with your knife tell them about it. We can only offer an opinion. Rick made the knife. No one knows it better than he does.

I don't think you came off as if you were trying to take anything from Ricks work but to be honest this whole thing just seemed a little petty. All it would have taken was a PM to Rick or Rob to answer you questions and take care of your concerns. If your knife was in anyway tampered with they'll let you know.

Understand Ricks concern when threads like this come up. It started as a cool thread with people discussing their experiences with CTS or 20Cv. Then it turned into a "testing" thread trying to show flaws in Ricks blades. Then it turned into a pissing contest about who knows more about steels. Which is always fun Lol BUT After it's all said and done. Is the problem with your knife resolved? No.

Shoot Rick a PM brotha. He's VERY approachable.

Good luck.


Noctis3880 said:
I didn't cut into the onion itself. When the onion arrives, it comes with a lot of root and a lot of excess "skin" at the top, both of which are completely dry.

I also did the "test" after removing the rust with Brasso and washing it with dish detergent and water.

But I agree that mere photos aren't solid proof as I could have dropped vinegar onto the blade of the XM-18 and bottled water on the ZT 0551(which I am more than pleased with):rolleyes:. If there is a trusted individual that Rick would take the word of who is willing to do the same test, I would happily send my knife out.

Of course Rick, I would prefer to send it to you directly. You could even charge me for the service if you wish.

I'm not trying to spread lies, propaganda, slander, or otherwise engage in stupidity. If my recent activities came across as an attempt at such, then I apologize. I'm merely a customer who has concerns about his product and would like assurances that I am not imagining a problem that does not exist. I just want someone qualified to look at the knife and tell me what the problem is, like if the previous owner took a blowtorch to the blade thus ruining the heat treat.
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LorenzoL said:
I was mostly saying that CTS-XHP has nothing to do with 440C.

If you want to be thorough, why don't you post the full composition of 20CV and XHP?

CTS-XHP: 1.60 C, 0.50 Mn, 0.40 Si, 16.00 Cr, 0.35 Ni, 0.80 Mo, 0.45 V
Duratech: 1.90 C, 0.30 Mn, 0.30 Si, 20.00 Cr, , 1.00 Mo, 4.00 V, 0.60 W
(BTW, Carpenter has a steel that is equivalent to Duratech, CTS-204P).
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Those numbers look pretty clase to a layman like me. ;)

Noctis3880 said:
Very true.

Let's just lock this thread before it gets any uglier:thumbup:.
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I haven't got any ugly vibes - just discussing two god blade steels. Sorry if I'm odd man out but I'm trying to soak up knowledge and Rick says the stuff's good. The steels are both good then!! :)
 
Yikes!! Sounds like people are getting into a p*****g match over this. When in doubt, follow the advice of the Knifemaker. Beat the hell out of the knife. I'm getting from Rick that BOTH steels can take it.

So, let me see if I got this correct though (someone out there, please weigh-in). I have a few XM-18's and none of them have any markings on the blades whatsoever. Does that mean they are all made with Duratech 20CV? They are all Gen 3's to my knowledge, unless someone put on the flat screws before they sold them to me.

In the meantime, I'm going back to do some beating of my own! :)

-- Steve
 
Who cares about those #?
I don't.
Either are bad ass steels that are tougher than a street dog's balls.
I use them.And I like them.That's what's important to me.

The rust,it can happen,but it hasn't to any of mine.

Btw,I'll take that "rustbucket" of your hands if you want to.How about $100 LOL
 
Klingsteve said:
Yikes!! Sounds like people are getting into a p*****g match over this. When in doubt, follow the advice of the Knifemaker. Beat the hell out of the knife. I'm getting from Rick that BOTH steels can take it.

So, let me see if I got this correct though (someone out there, please weigh-in). I have a few XM-18's and none of them have any markings on the blades whatsoever. Does that mean they are all made with Duratech 20CV? They are all Gen 3's to my knowledge, unless someone put on the flat screws before they sold them to me.

In the meantime, I'm going back to do some beating of my own! :)

-- Steve
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Gen 3's have HINDERER on the Ti lockside. That's the easiest way of identifying them. As far as your steel. If they're Gen 3's with no marking on the blade they are more than likely Duratech 20Cv blades.

Now get back to your beating... Hope u were referring to your knives...:eek: haha
 
Previously owned knives are tough because you never know what they've been through, even safe queens or unused knives stored without oil could have microscopic rust spots. Hell knowing knife guys there's got to be plenty of bench grinders mounted near knife storage boxes, drawers and cases, throwing iron and mild steel dust everywhere!

You may want to run a gun barrel cleaning brush through the pivot hole of the blade a few times .22 or .38 works for me just to make sure no rust is hiding in there, also check your washers well as rust seems to stick to the edges.

I do see where you are coming from, it would bother me if a knife was rusting out under mild conditions, I would either use it and clean it more often (not in sink w water but break it down and oil/scrub/wipe) or PM Rob about sending it in for a spa treatment, not expecting any grantees form them regarding the rust but more for peace of mind.

I used mine recently in salt water everyday for two weeks wading chest deep without washing or cleaning it, and even with rust on the pivot and a few spots on the blade it never failed to flip open and kept a toothy serviceable edge even when "dull" by arm-shaver standards.
 
Pieter.45 said:
Who cares about those #?
I don't.
Either are bad ass steels that are tougher than a street dog's balls.
I use them.And I like them.That's what's important to me.

The rust,it can happen,but it hasn't to any of mine.

Btw,I'll take that "rustbucket" of your hands if you want to.How about $100 LOL
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You'll have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

Rust aside, this is the smoothest opening knife I've ever handled, and as it always seems with Rick's designs, it feels like it was made for my hands.
 
cziv said:
I just heated up my new XM-18 "hot" with my blow dryer on "high" and put Militec-1 in the pivot and wiped the blade down with it. Reheated it a few times which makes it even thinner and it really spreads out. Got it all wiped down to dry.

I'll reheat and dry with tissue and q-tips today and repeat the procedure on Mon. & Tues. I'll bet a $100 bill this sucker won't rust. :) :thumbup:
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Quoted myself there ..lol If you're worried about surface rust plz do yourself a favor and do what I'm doing (both 20CV and CTS XM's)

I just got off the phone with the manufacturer and I read my method to him and he said "the blades & treated surface won't rust" in fact, he told me I didn't even have to do it three applications.

That's what some guy taught me to do years ago, so that's what I do. It makes the knife a lot faster too and no oily residue. He affirmed that the Militec-1, when used on hot blades/pivots (blow dryer hot) bonds with the metal on a molecular level.

NO, I wouldn't drink it, but I wouldn't sweat using it for cutting food if I washed the blade off lightly beforehand either. :D
 
rickCPD said:
Gen 3's have HINDERER on the Ti lockside. That's the easiest way of identifying them. As far as your steel. If they're Gen 3's with no marking on the blade they are more than likely Duratech 20Cv blades.

Now get back to your beating... Hope u were referring to your knives...:eek: haha
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RickCPD: LMFAO!! Didn't realize how that sounded until you commented. Kudos to you :thumbup:
 
We all spend our cash on expensive things and expect never to see anything go wrong. That's not reality. How many times has your car or truck been in the shop? How many repairman have been to your house? How about that expensive watch on your wrist? The dang buckle still scratches! Makes me crazy. I'm sure if there is a real problem with your blade Rick and Rob will make it right.
 
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