Curious as to why.....

Basically, we leave it up to the people involved. We cannot chase every single thread or transaction down to verify Paypal rules are being followed. It's not our job. Bladeforums is the venue, and it is up to the parties involved in the deal to handle their transaction in accordance with whatever the terms of the payment services they chose to use. There is a disclaimer in the Exchange rules, which were revised March 1st, 2014 (this year, yes). While I stay away from people that offer items with (add 3.5% for fees or send gift) in he thread, I cannot make anyone else follow suit. If someone is absentminded enough to give up their buyer protection, then I don't know what to say other than basically looked for a way to lose their money When does ignorance stop and accountability kick in?

Do I like Paypal? Not really, they provide a service, but they provide it in such a way that they require everyone that use them has to follow the California laws about automatics, balisongs, and firearms. That is just nuts, and many dealers have stopped using Paypal as a result of being told what they can and cannot sell in their stores. Completely out of line, telling a store what they can and cannot sell despite being in another state on the other side of the country. :rolleyes:
 
Not defending sellers who do it; but I think it's important to keep in mind that there are those buyers who, in order to save those crucial extra few bucks, have included that option in their own negotiation requests, to the point where sellers figured, if that's what he wants to do, it's no skin off my hide. The problem, of course, is that it takes money away from PayPal. Again, I'm not saying it's right; I'm just saying, it isn't just the seller who contributes to this.
 
I would be happier with a quoted price (all inclusive) or offering a discount if payment is via a means other than paypal. Semantics I know but to me more acceptable.
 
@Redevil, just so we are clear, I was in no way insinuating nor implying that the moderators or the forum owners should take action or even care.

Ultimately, I guess it's a sign of the times that some people are simply to ignorant or lazy to perform a simple calculation to arrive at a final price that they are willing to sell the knife for.

I don't particularly agree with Paypals political statement, but I do believe they provide a secure means of transferring money between parties that for the most part works very well, and that they deserve to be compensated for providing the service.

The gift option is possibly in place because regardless of Paypals political position or the cost for them to provide the service, they likely recognize that there are people who's circumstances have become such that people who care about them are willing to donate some money to them to get them through a hard time and that there is room for them (paypal) to extend that charity as well. One of the benefits of being successful is being able to give back to your customers when appropriate.

It's a shame that in todays world mny people view any successful company as greedy, and the anonymity of the internet makes what is essentially stealing appear to be OK. I'd hate to see paypal remove the gift option due to abuse.... because they easily could.

I am glad to see I am not the only one who feels this way.

With that said, I will now contribute something to bladeforums because while I appreciate that it is free, I have also gleaned quite a bit of knowledge and am grateful to have it as a resource.
 
This makes no sense at all, the fees are the sellers problem so the seller pays them. In somewhat recent times there has been a wide spread practice of sellers passing fees onto the buyer. How exactly does a buyer save money by paying the sellers fees ? Using the gift option or offering to use gift is a total moot point, the fees are and ramian the sellers problem so you shouldn't even have a single penny to save there as a buyer.

BlackKnight86 said:
Not defending sellers who do it; but I think it's important to keep in mind that there are those buyers who, in order to save those crucial extra few bucks, have included that option in their own negotiation requests, to the point where sellers figured, if that's what he wants to do, it's no skin off my hide. The problem, of course, is that it takes money away from PayPal. Again, I'm not saying it's right; I'm just saying, it isn't just the seller who contributes to this.
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I don't sell very often but when I do I don't ask the buyer to pay MY fee's or ask for gift.

When buying I will automatically pass on any sales thread that say's "Gift or add xx% for fee's".

Hopefully if enough do the same it will catch on but I think these threads on the subject that come up from time to time have value and are very helpful.

I think a vast majority of sellers, especially the newer ones to BFC put the fee's in their ad because that's what they see most other people doing and don't know it against PP's Terms of service.

Let's be honest, how many of us actually read the TOS when we first signed up? I know I didn't. It was a thread like this one I read some years ago that made me aware that asking for fee's or gift when purchasing good's was against the TOS.

I think most sellers want to do the right thing in the right way and threads like this help raise awareness.

The OP makes a great point also. Deals made here require a degree of trust and honesty. What impression does it give if the first thing I see is that you are willing to cheat PP out of their fee's or make a buyer pay YOUR fee's knowing it's against PP's TOS? Not a good one. Makes me wonder, Can I really trust your description that the knife you describe as NIB or LNIB, never used carried or cut anything is really in that condition?
 
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pbcg said:
When buying I will automatically pass on any sales thread that say's "Gift or add xx% for fee's".

Hopefully if enough do the same it will catch on ......
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Therein lies the problem. If someone wants a particular knife .... it usually doesn't matter whether the seller asks to have PP fees paid for by the buyer, asks for a percentage (for fees) more than PP takes, or asks for the payment via gift ... the deal is usually done. Judging from what I have seen, there is a very large pool of buyers who have no problem with this. I've missed out on many a knife that I have wanted because I refuse to do sellers' math for them and help them set an acceptable price and I fully understand the risks associated with gifts for merchandise. We can debate this forever. I doubt anything will change unless there is a rule that sellers must set a TYD price and stop asking for gift payment.
 
d.r.h. said:
Therein lies the problem. If someone wants a particular knife .... it usually doesn't matter whether the seller asks to have PP fees paid for by the buyer, asks for a percentage (for fees) more than PP takes, or asks for the payment via gift ... the deal is usually done. Judging from what I have seen, there is a very large pool of buyers who have no problem with this. I've missed out on many a knife that I have wanted because I refuse to do sellers' math for them and help them set an acceptable price and I fully understand the risks associated with gifts for merchandise. We can debate this forever. I doubt anything will change unless there is a rule that sellers must set a TYD price and stop asking for gift payment.
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You know, I have to agree with you. There does seem to be a large pool of buyers that will still buy under these circumstances. Unfortunate but true. Especially newer members who will pay with gift not knowing what a mistake their making until it's too late after they have been burned.

Short of a rule you are correct and since it's already been stated many times that no such rule is forthcoming thing's will in all likelihood remain the same.

However, I personally will continue to pass on sales that ask for it and when I sell not ask for fee's or the use of the gift option. If others do the same just "maybe" thing's might change but I can't disagree with your post at all.
 
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I don't ask for fees when I sell and I generally add 3% when I buy an item to cover the fees. I know how you feel op.
 
rustysocket said:
Anyway, I'm not trying to create any waves, nor make a statement about anybody in particular. I'm just curious how this became so common here and wonder what others thoughts are?

Thanks for reading

rs
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Because there are people who either want the item badly enough to risk using the gift option or realize that, even with the fees, they're still getting a bargain compared with what they might pay on eBay. I'm fairly certain that, if nobody bought from the folks who ask for these forms of payment, most of them would decide that increasing their asking price by 4% and not asking people to break PayPal rules was a good idea.
 
The transaction requires using "gift" or including "some" % in addition to asking price? One word: "fo-gte-abowd-et!"
 
One thing I've done in the past (and in an entirely different market) is, if it was something I really wanted, offer the seller 5-6% less than their asking price...even if I was willing to purchase at the posted amount. Of course, some of the ads posted here result in sales within minutes; so such dickering is less likely to be effective.
 
Haze said:
This makes no sense at all, the fees are the sellers problem so the seller pays them. In somewhat recent times there has been a wide spread practice of sellers passing fees onto the buyer. How exactly does a buyer save money by paying the sellers fees ? Using the gift option or offering to use gift is a total moot point, the fees are and ramian the sellers problem so you shouldn't even have a single penny to save there as a buyer.
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What don't you understand? Seller always posts $X and takes PayPal. He encounters several buyers who want to save a few bucks and ask to use PayPal gift option to send $Y, which is less. To accommodate such requests, since his net result is the same, he changes the terms to be either "Net $Y to me" or "Pay $Y via MO or add PayPal fees". The point is, the practice is the contribution of both sides of the coin, not just the seller. That doesn't excuse anyone; it just places the blame where it accurately lies.

As to the "widespread practice of sellers passing fees onto the buyer", if they calculate the fees into the final cost, that's exactly what they ARE doing. The practice is not the passing on of the fees; it's the granting the buyer the option to not pay the fee by the illicit practice of using the Gift option. It is my understanding that if the total is under a set amount, fees are waived using the Gift option....is that not the case? If so, the practice is an effective way to reduce the cost to the buyer while maintaining the net to the seller. That's why they do it....it benefits both.....so both are responsible for the practice, not just the seller. Do you understand that?

Again, I think it is wrong and unfair to PayPal. I have done it before out of ignorance; but I do not do it anymore because of the exact rationale that folks have given in this thread. I'm only saying, don't place all the blame only on the sellers.
 
BK86 ,
The seller is solely responsible , he can dictate only goods. He can easily undo a deal , if he hasn't agreed to it. I have accepted gift.However I've never listed with anything but all inclusive. I won't again. When I did I had to ask what NET to me meant with the offer on my knife. I don't excuse myself from who had control. I have also gifted as a buyer. It wasn't asked. I did it because I trusted the seller and didn't think about PP and what they are entitled too. I thought I was being generous . I really appreciate you don't do it. I learn from others.

to those who use the option or ask for fees , Thank you for using net or gift option. Its saves me from salivating over your knives. I'm being facetious.

To Rustysocket, I like your thread title but I think the word Net ,% or Gift is needed in it. I wish new sellers realized they may be hurting their sales. Not helping.

I'll stick to my guns.
 
Thanks for your reply. Likely I should have titled the thread better... not sure how to edit.
 
rusty , just go to your original post, click edit and then next window it will come up with option advanced edit click that and your there. I think . Do what you will though . Its a good thing to be curious about. even if we think we already know the answer.
 
Dead horse !

The paypal Gift thing is common practice all over the Internet NOT just BF.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong but if you don't like it just pass to the next thread and don't lose any sleep.

People say it's greed and folks are making a few xtra bucks by making the buyer pay the fee's, I don't believe that's the case.

I think that it's more that sellers in many cases have to sell at such low prices to make a sale that if the added the xtra dollars it would be a deal breaker.

Now !! before all you start calling BS, I have been buying and selling for a minute and get the 3, 5 whatever deal breaker offers all the time.

People shop the forums because they want the rock bottom badass deal they can find....bottom line !! That's why most are here !!

Paypal goods is not the save all everyone speaks of.... In hundreds of transactions on the forums that I have done the few that have gone bad for me (purchasing) were by paypal goods and paypal did not back me at all....there are loop holes and there are those out there that master taking advantage of them.

The same folks that are complaining about paypal fee's never complain about a seller offering priority shipping.

$100.00 knife forsale, price includes Paypal goods fees of 2.90 + .30 = $3.20 inclusive in the $100.00 sale price....Buyer pays USPS Flate rate small box if applicable $5.80.

I have sold stuff for 100.00 or less that took 14-15 bucks shipping.

Not all cases are out of greed and not all sellers that ask for fees are criminals.
 
I recently started to set all my prices with "PayPal Fees and Insured Shipping Included". It would be so much easier if all sellers would set an asking price with these things automatically included. Its the sellers responsibility to pay the fees and insure the items shipped anyways.
 
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