Curious as to why.....

RecalcitrantAmerican said:
I recently started to set all my prices with "PayPal Fees and Insured Shipping Included". It would be so much easier if all sellers would set an asking price with these things automatically included. Its the sellers responsibility to pay the fees and insure the items shipped anyways.
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Its the sellers responsibility to make sure the buyer gets the product (IMO) but not according to Paypal.

All you experts tell us how the coveted Paypal protection leaves a buyer S.O.L.

Insurance covers the seller NOT the buyer.
 
This might be a controversial statement, not many people will agree with it, and I still prefer to buy from people that follow paypal rules...BUT...this is community forum first. As the mods have said many times, the exchange is an afterthought, a privelage, and a major convenience. People using the exchange should be selling only because they want to change up their collection of cutlery, not because they're trying to make a profit. Since none of these sellers *should* be using the exchange as a business, I can almost excuse their denying of Paypal's fee. They are not trying to make money. Obviously this a breach of Paypal's rules, and that's bad, but in terms of this site's philosophy I feel that sellers using the exchange to make a buck is much much worse.
 
jfalkos said:
This might be a controversial statement, not many people will agree with it, and I still prefer to buy from people that follow paypal rules...BUT...this is community forum first. As the mods have said many times, the exchange is an afterthought, a privelage, and a major convenience. People using the exchange should be selling only because they want to change up their collection of cutlery, not because they're trying to make a profit. Since none of these sellers *should* be using the exchange as a business, I can almost excuse their denying of Paypal's fee. They are not trying to make money. Obviously this a breach of Paypal's rules, and that's bad, but in terms of this site's philosophy I feel that sellers using the exchange to make a buck is much much worse.
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I been collecting knives for a minute and have a bunch of makers knives stashed away.

I have had thoughts of selling part of one collection because i am amazed how much they are bringing these days.

This collection is by a guy named Martin....i paid a average of 500-800 for his knives when i purchased them, now they sell for 2K plus.

What is your advise ?

If i sell them should i ask what i paid or the market price today ?

Oh...ofcourse all fees, shipping, insurance inclusive.
 
And if I sell one for say 600.00 and the buyer flips it for 2500.00 should the buyer split his profit with me ?
 
bigmark408 said:
And if I sell one for say 600.00 and the buyer flips it for 2500.00 should the buyer split his profit with me ?
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I was referring more to those sort of people...who either abuse the trust of others or use BladeForums as a venue for their business. I have nothing against people selling off their collections, just people who act as a dealer would, buying up knives in bulk SOLELY to resell them (on BladeForums that is).
 
Haze said:
As the seller the fees are your problem, passing them on to the buyer is shady but as you mention it's just the done thing now. I personally just stopped buying on the exchange here and that is one of the reasons. It would seem there are many people here that will support the making of money no matter what the method and that is one method to squeeze those few extra bucks that matter so much out of a deal.
Anyone that uses gift to pay for an item from a stranger on the internet is a fool and frankly by now deserves any grief they get from it as it has long been pounded out that you should not gift anyone money unless the money is a gift. It can be said a million times and more but people will still do it......
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It's unfortunate it came down to it Haze. As you know, there are some great knives that come up for sale here, and sometimes they are offered at a decent price. I have actually lost count of the number of knives I have passed on recently because of the Gift Option, or add XX% to cover fees...
It is actually very irritating. I voiced my displeasure recently in a thread about this very subject, but still see many listings that still have the same BS pricing, AND many of those knives still sell.


RecalcitrantAmerican said:
I recently started to set all my prices with "PayPal Fees and Insured Shipping Included". It would be so much easier if all sellers would set an asking price with these things automatically included. Its the sellers responsibility to pay the fees and insure the items shipped anyways.
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That is good, but neither should even need to be clarified. As a buyer, I don't care about the fee's. Not my problem. Neither is the sellers lack of insuring the item. If someone pays for a knife, and it doesn't arrive, that isn't the buyers problem. It is the sellers problem... Why should a buyer be required to pay insurance, when it isn't them that will be filing a loss claim ?

I always put in my listings, " Please do not use the Gift Option". I do have to say, I have noticed a few more members lately that have been putting the same thing in their sales. One even said if money was sent using the Gift Option, the funds would be returned. Very cool. That's the kind of people I want to do business with
 
How do you tell the difference from a dealer or an addicted knife nut such as myself? I sold a Moon MK6 today at $50 more then I paid to cover insured shipping and to buy a Grand Slam at Denny's after I drop it off. You know, "Those sort of People..."
 
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I agree, but since I am a newbie I have seen a ton of people charging more for fees and shipping insured. Unfortunately as a seller I clarify to my fellow members so they know if they are dealing with me, there will be zero issues.
 
I get why the average joe doesn't want to pay the fees. I'm guessing most of us on here are just buying and selling to change things up. Not to make a buck. Businesses pay a percentage of a transaction if using a customer is using a credit card. Some businesses will even charge more if using a credit card. Been to a gun store lately?

I don't mind picking up the fees if I believe the person selling is just a regular guy or girl trying to get back what they put into it. Splitting the fee would be nice though.

If you're doing business, that's the cost of using paypal. Just as if you had a credit card machine on your counter.

If someone asks for anything other than "covering fees" such as 3% or more, no way. The paypal fees are 2.9% + 30¢. I'm not paying that much more just because you don't feel like doing the proper math. It doesn't matter if it's only a few pennies.
 
It's really very simple - if you don't want to pay the fee, don't use the service. It doesn't matter how much, or how little, one sells...using PayPal provides instant payment (no waiting for checks or money orders that may not show), as well as allowing casual sellers the ability to receive payment by credit card (which increases the likelihood of a sale). If the $7.55 fee on that $250 sale is going to be an issue, either wait for payment to be mailed or raise the price $10.
 
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This thread is about Sellers playing the NET % GIFT game. If you can't tell a Buyer the TYD $ amount and then let them pay through goods as they should.

Sellers IMHO are trying to play games. Either skirt the fees or leave the buyer with no recourse.

Pretending like its a courtesy to allow the buyer the option of screwing himself to save a few bucks is BS
 
Agreed!! Not sure why this has become such an issue lately......just include fees, shipping and insurance into the price and it makes a nice, easy to understand package for buyers to decide on......

JCP1969 said:
This thread is about Sellers playing the NET % GIFT game. If you can't tell a Buyer the TYD $ amount and then let them pay through goods as they should.

Sellers IMHO are trying to play games. Either skirt the fees or leave the buyer with no recourse.

Pretending like its a courtesy to allow the buyer the option of screwing himself to save a few bucks is BS
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RecalcitrantAmerican said:
How do you tell the difference from a dealer or an addicted knife nut such as myself? I sold a Moon MK6 today at $50 more then I paid to cover insured shipping and to buy a Grand Slam at Denny's after I drop it off. You know, "Those sort of People..."
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The community can tell who is only in it to flip knives for quick cash and who is a true enthusiast. Some folks have repeatedly bought knives for a low price, and then within a matter of hours or days turn around and flip that item for a nice added amount.


RecalcitrantAmerican said:
I agree, but since I am a newbie I have seen a ton of people charging more for fees and shipping insured. Unfortunately as a seller I clarify to my fellow members so they know if they are dealing with me, there will be zero issues.
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This may end up coming to a screeching halt very soon. Another mod and I are discussing this whole Paypal gift thing. While I do not want to be insulting to any one person here, it has to be said. We may end up having to protect even some of the less intelligent members on the forums (yes, the dummies) that use gift and then get ripped off. What is especially trendy now is using the gift option for a purchase, you get ripped off and then run to start a thread expecting us to be able to do something about it. It is turning into much more work for everyone having to chase these stupid people around the forum, sending emails, infracting, banning, etc., it's hard feeling pity for some folks that just refuse to use common sense enough to ask questions or protect themselves. Especially after the last 2 months have seen more people ripped off than in the previous 6-8 monts combined.

Here is a new edit made to the exchange rules on March 1st, located under the Rules for Buyers:
8. You are responsible for using Paypal as it was intended, using the "Gift" option revokes any buyers protection you may have and opens the door to getting scammed. Proceed at your own risk.
 
bigmark408 said:
I been collecting knives for a minute and have a bunch of makers knives stashed away.

I have had thoughts of selling part of one collection because i am amazed how much they are bringing these days.

This collection is by a guy named Martin....i paid a average of 500-800 for his knives when i purchased them, now they sell for 2K plus.

What is your advise ?

If i sell them should i ask what i paid or the market price today ?

Oh...ofcourse all fees, shipping, insurance inclusive.
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You should definetly sell them for what you paid... and make sure and contact me FIRST :rolleyes:
 
hhmoore said:
It's really very simple - if you don't want to pay the fee, don't use the service. It doesn't matter how much, or how little, one sells...using PayPal provides instant payment (no waiting for checks or money orders that may not show), as well as allowing casual sellers the ability to receive payment by credit card (which increases the likelihood of a sale). If the $7.55 fee on that $250 sale is going to be an issue, either wait for payment to be mailed or raise the price $10.
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This.

A thousand times this. Doesn't matter a bit to me if you are the buyer or seller - you are both partners in defrauding PayPal, IMO.

Don't like PayPal's fees?

Go get a cashier's check or money order. I have done that many times myself.

I have also paid PayPal fees as a buyer, and included them as a seller. Hundreds of times. PayPal provides a service. You wouldn't expect to provide your services for free, and you would not like someone ripping you off by using your services for free against your will. If you think their fees are so excessive, then start your own Internet payment service and compete against them if you think that you can provide this service for lower fees.

PayPal says that it provides the Friends-and-Family option for you to send money to a friend or family member where there is no transaction involved. So if the person is not a friend or family member, or there is a transaction involved, then you should not be using this option. And if you do, then you are abusing their services.

Personally, I do not even understand why they have the friends-and-family option. IMO, they should abolish it because there are too many dishonest and unethical people abusing it. In fact, the best justification I have heard from folks who do this is that PayPal has to know about it, and if they do not care enough to change their policies to prevent it, then obviously they do not care. Maybe. But that does change the fact that you are using their services contrary to the rules of your agreement with them.
 
I used to ask GIFT all the time but after reading this thread I am changing and adding an all inclusive price in my threads. I used to ask GIFT because Paypal charges way more fees for international transactions especially if the seller is outside of US but I think a lot of guys are right and we need to change this for good.
 
Rule number 8 sums it up best RevDevil my brother. Keep up the good work, I'm proud of you mods. Its so simple to set a price with the PayPal fees and the insured shipping included. If the buyer doesn't like negotiate or move on. Hell if my dumb butt can buy, sell, and trade anyone can.

I have so much damn fun on this site. It truly is a great place to visit with ill and addicted to sharp objects people like myself.

"DICTUM MEUM PACTUM"
 
I'm amazed that PayPal hasn't discontinued the gift option altogether. Surely they must notice how some people just constantly receive 'gifts' from a collection of different and non repeating 'givers?'

They must make so much from eBay (which offers no gift option) they can afford not to care about nickel and dime stuff like BFC. Personally I'm not willing to sacrifice the buyer protection features to save a couple of bucks.
 
elkins45 said:
I'm amazed that PayPal hasn't discontinued the gift option altogether. Surely they must notice how some people just constantly receive 'gifts' from a collection of different and non repeating 'givers?'

They must make so much from eBay (which offers no gift option) they can afford not to care about nickel and dime stuff like BFC. Personally I'm not willing to sacrifice the buyer protection features to save a couple of bucks.
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I don't think they've gotten rid of it because there is a lot of legitimate use for it. I know someone that used "Gift" for eBay sales and forum sales 6+ years ago. Upon inspection, PayPal forced him to get a business account. There were at least 100 transaction or more every month ranging from $50 to $300, all gift. So, now he gets Gift payments -3%. The frequency of use and activity level overall is how Paypal monitors and determines what happens.
 
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