Current Military and Law Enforcement Knives

[Eli Chaps]

The picture I'm referring to...

Taken from this thread: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/cold-steel-knives-in-combat.1365808/page-4

 

[sabre cat]

The SEALs definitely used Cold Steel SRKs in their BUDS training at one time, but not sure if that's still the case...the below is from their 2014 catalog

View attachment 1271249

I don’t think anyone here is questioning a limited issue to a special unit or command. However, many times it is a one time thing. The USMC purchase of a Strider is a good example.

The problem is that many manufacturers will milk that for all it is worth and fanboys will lap it up like fine cream.

Then, to make things worse, some will almost get hostile (not you) if others don’t acknowledge the fact their favorite gear or manufacturer is “issued” by one branch of service or another.

It’s like they are going to die if everyone does not know that CS, SOG, Strider, BM, etc. is carried by unit ABC or department XYZ.

Who cares? Most soldiers probably don’t. Comments here lead me to the conclusion that most LEOs don’t either.

Don’t get me wrong, this stuff can be a load of fun. Especially when you find out your favorite blade is carried by some high speed unit.

But, it should be remembered that government equipment is many times (probably most times) made by the lowest bidder. With a couple of exceptions, I don’t think I would want the “issue” knife to be the blade I have to depend on.

What knife I carry and the reason why that specific knife are both very important to me.

Don’t get me wrong, what the government issues to the troops is always of interest to me. It helps me evaluate gear that I own or use.

The issue gear that I see service members choose to ignore can also be of interest. More so if they choose equipment to replace it.
The Gerber/Swiss multi-tool comment someone made previously is a prime example.

 

[Rich S]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but Victorinox (SAK) has supplied folders to several dozen countries military, including US.
Commonly it is only to specific units. This was well discussed on a separate SAK board along with lists of countries supplied. Some listed:US, Germany, Dutch, Australia, Canada, Croatia, NATO, Luxembourg, Lithuania, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, France, Brunei, Singapore, Malaysia, Cyprus, Nigeria, South Africa. Many are private purchases with military insignia; others supplied in survival packs for certain units. All above from known examples.
Rich

Edit: Forgot to mention a SAK was issued to all Apollo and Space Shuttle crews.

 

[marcinek]

Here's how you resolve this.

Go get a Gingrich Tactical Innovations knife. Custom or something he designed for somebody like White River, 5.11, Kizer, or Ontario.

Now you got a knife designed/made by and for a real life Army Ranger.

 

[sabre cat]

Here's how you resolve this.

Go get a Gingrich Tactical Innovations knife. Custom or something he designed for somebody like White River, 5.11, Kizer, or Ontario.

Now you got a knife designed/made by and for a real life Army Ranger.

I have one from Ontario Knife Co.
Does that mean I am high speed again?

 

[sabre cat]

...Forgot to mention a SAK was issued to all Apollo and Space Shuttle crews.

I vaguely remember Apollo but did not know about shuttle crews.

Pictures?

 

[tusk212]

Thanks for the lead.
Looks like this was in 2002. I found an excellent article where some of my earlier questions about LEO agencies and the general lack of knife-related policy are addressed.

Some passages:

"Training outweighs restrictive policy when it comes to liability," says Bolke. "A perfect example is that our officers are allowed to hit people with their flashlights. Our department policy treats flashlights as impact weapons, and our officers are trained to use them. So we also wanted to train our officers to use their knives as weapons when a situation gets horrible enough that they have to do it."

Use-of-force specialists say departments who have acknowledged that officers may have to defend themselves with their "pocket knives" have taken a critical step toward a realistic knife policy that gives officers some limited coverage should they ever have to use a knife in a fight. But much work remains. And as seen in the examples of Ontario and Fountain Valley, smaller departments are much more likely to draft knife policies than larger departments.


The Knife, (the police version was modified a bit from this picture)

200px-EKISark by D P, on Flickr

From the article:

Emerson's P-SARK folding knife is the police version of an Emerson knife that was designed for the U.S. Navy's Search and Rescue teams, the SARK, or Search and Rescue Knife.

The SARK has a distinctive, rounded tip hawkbill blade designed to permit rescuers to slide the 3.6-inch blade under seatbelts and cut them with its serrated edge without stabbing the crash victim. Emerson modified the knife for police use by bringing the blade to a point, but still giving the blade's tip a curve that makes it a poor stabbing weapon but well suited to rescue duties.


Article:
https://www.policemag.com/338938/on-the-cutting-edge

The Strider DB was also made at Bolke's request. He wanted an "urban destruction tool" that would fit in the trauma plate pocket of an officers concealed body armor. The DB was not widely issued as far as I'm aware though.

 

[sabre cat]

The Strider DB was also made at Bolke's request. He wanted an "urban destruction tool" that would fit in the trauma plate pocket of an officers concealed body armor. The DB was not widely issued as far as I'm aware though.

Pictures?

 

[effenoam]

My unit (Marine reserve infantry) issues an off-brand Kabar in place of a bayonet to Marines who dont primarily use a rifle, IE machine gunners and assaultmen. I think its Ontario but cant remember for sure...also they've only left the armory once in over 4 years...

 

[John_0917]

I know NSNs are assigned to:
-Pacific Salt
-some Benchmade autos
-Gerber 06 Auto (sad to see service members issued that piece of crap)
-allegedly Strider SMFs to MARSOC units, although I have a lifelong friend who has been in several MARSOC units over his 15+ years (he’s an E7 now) and he’s never seen or heard of one. I would not put it past Mickey Burger to make that whole thing up...

 

[Danke42]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but Victorinox (SAK) has supplied folders to several dozen countries military, including US.
Commonly it is only to specific units. This was well discussed on a separate SAK board along with lists of countries supplied. Some listed:US, Germany, Dutch, Australia, Canada, Croatia, NATO, Luxembourg, Lithuania, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, France, Brunei, Singapore, Malaysia, Cyprus, Nigeria, South Africa. Many are private purchases with military insignia; others supplied in survival packs for certain units. All above from known examples.
Rich

Edit: Forgot to mention a SAK was issued to all Apollo and Space Shuttle crews.

NASA knives over the years.

Emerson, Victorinox, Case, Randall, and Camillus.

 

[The Whip]

"I'm going to make fun of everyone else's answers, then respond with my own anecdotal answers. THAT'S SMART."

I didn't make fun of anyone's answers. Anyone who wrote something substantive and factual about the topic would correctly assume that I wasn't calling his post drivel.

I have no idea what you mean by referring to my post as anecdotal. The threads I referenced speak for themselves. Are you suggesting that I didn't supply evidence for my assertions about the brands I listed? If so, my answer is this: I try not to post frivolously on these forums and I'm not defending a Ph.D. dissertation here. If someone doesn't believe what I've said about those brands being purchased and issued by military units, he's welcome to research it himself.

Also, there is nothing in that thread that contradicts anything that was said by me or the other vets in this thread. The point being, our experiences are there's no universally issued knives. It's unit and individually based.


Good grief.

I never said anything to the contrary. And I certainly never said, implied, suggested, or even hinted that there have ever been universally issued military knives. They are ALL issued by unit (or even individually), regardless of how they are procured, which is why there are so many differing accounts of who has received what.

As responses in these types of threads have have shown over the years, guys in the same unit at different times or under different commanders may have radically different experiences. Just because a guy in 3rd Ranger Battalion in 1986 didn't receive a knife it doesn't mean that a guy in 3rd Ranger Battalion in 1990 didn't get issued one. And neither guy's experience accurately reflects the whole picture of which knives the 3rd Ranger Battalion has procured and issued throughout its history.

I don't have a problem with people relating their personal stories in answer to these threads. I love reading those. I do have an issue with people turning their personal experiences (or, worse, personal opinions) into blanket statements that they try to pass off as universal truths.

what are these books you alluded to in your post above?

Anything by Dietmar Pohl, but the most applicable is Modern Knives In Combat. M.H. Cole's U.S. Military Knives, Bayonets, & Machetes is a tremendous volume. The military knives theme runs throughout Leroy Thompson's knife books, but particularly Survival/Fighting Knives and Fairbairn-Sykes Commando Dagger. Robert Hunt's Randall Fighting Knives In Wartime has a lot of good information pertaining to carry of Randalls. You might research the writings of Frank Trzaska, one of the foremost experts on U.S. military knives in America. Those are good starting points.

-allegedly Strider SMFs to MARSOC units, although I have a lifelong friend who has been in several MARSOC units over his 15+ years (he’s an E7 now) and he’s never seen or heard of one. I would not put it past Mickey Burger to make that whole thing up...

That's an interesting point. Yet, until they were exposed, Burger and Dwyer had snowed a lot of people and were hobnobbing with some genuine-article soldiers and police. So it wouldn't surprise me if they managed to convince some decision makers to buy batches of their knives for issue. I'll see if I can dig up any facts on that.

It’s like they are going to die if everyone does not know that CS, SOG, Strider, BM, etc. is carried by unit ABC or department XYZ.


Who cares?

I do. I like military and law enforcement knives--always have. I like learning about what knives have been purchased and issued by which units/agencies and why. I enjoy hearing about what knives guys carried while serving and why.


-Steve

 

[sluggyslugworth]

Air Force guy here. Some of my team just deployed and were issued Leatherman's Supertool 300. My shop is comprised of engineering specialist but it seems like everyone in our civil engineering squadron gets issued these when they deploy (Fire Protection, EOD, Emergency Management, ect...).

 

[sabre cat]

Wow, a lot of drivel has been spewed in this thread already!

...your questions get asked fairly frequently, with the same smattering of answers, half-answers, anecdotal answers, and non-answers. The people with a lot of knowledge on the topic have stopped bothering to respond...

-Steve

What you wrote above basically rubbed some of us the wrong way. Personally, I found it insulting and I would guess others did too. Maybe that is why you have some comments in response.

There is a huge amount of wisdom and experience that many people have offered in this thread. Maybe your comments dismissed all of it as BS in the minds of some. I don’t know.

And now for something completely different...

 

[KnifeRep]

The Gerber D.E.T. mulitool, one of them at least, I've been told there's a variant with the cap crimper at the base of the jaws; note the spike for making cap holes.

 

[sabre cat]

Gerber has done a halfway decent job trying to keep their MP 600 series current with the needs of the military.

I have 5 multi-tools. Three are modified Gerbers. I reach for those over my Leatherman or SOG.

 

[KnifeRep]

I have 3 different Gerber multitools and one Leatherman myself, the Gerber D.E.T. I have came with a Lan Cay M-11 EOD knife & scabbard (NSN 1095-01-577-6043 knife/1095-01-577-6054 scabbard), it's a variant of the M-9 bayo adapted for EOD teams and first issued to the 52nd Ordnance Group (EOD) in 1997. My D.E.T. mulitool came in a tool pouch attached to the scabbard, as far as I know, Lan Cay was the only manufacture of USGI M-11 EOD knives, Ontario also makes a M-11 EOD knife w/a M-9 type scabbard.

The original Lan Cay M-11's were olive green like this one with a soft Cordura nylon pouch, later runs by Lan Cay were all black with a rubber and Cordura tool pouch attached to the scabbard; all M-11 knives retain the wire cutter hole and fixture on the scabbard.

There was also a conversion kit to convert M-9 bayonets into M-11 EOD knives

 

[Eli Chaps]

T The Whip comments such as these...

Wow, a lot of drivel has been spewed in this thread already! I'll start by verifying some assertions about Cold Steel and SOG.

...

Pinemoon, I find this topic very interesting, as well. The problem is, your questions get asked fairly frequently, with the same smattering of answers, half-answers, anecdotal answers, and non-answers. The people with a lot of knowledge on the topic have stopped bothering to respond...

-Steve

...paint with a very broad brush and certainly sound dismissive of all the folks replying. If that wasn't your intent, we'll chalk it up to miscommunication and move on.

 

[sabre cat]

I have 3 different Gerber multitools and one Leatherman myself, the Gerber D.E.T. I have came with a Lan Cay M-11 EOD knife & scabbard (NSN 1095-01-577-6043 knife/1095-01-577-6054 scabbard), it's a variant of the M-9 bayo adapted for EOD teams and first issued to the 52nd Ordnance Group (EOD) in 1997. My D.E.T. mulitool came in a tool pouch attached to the scabbard, as far as I know, Lan Cay was the only manufacture of USGI M-11 EOD knives, Ontario also makes a M-11 EOD knife w/a M-9 type scabbard.

The original Lan Cay M-11's were olive green like this one with a soft Cordura nylon pouch, later runs by Lan Cay were all black with a rubber and Cordura tool pouch attached to the scabbard; all M-11 knives retain the wire cutter hole and fixture on the scabbard.

There was also a conversion kit to convert M-9 bayonets into M-11 EOD knives

I have completely forgotten about the M-11 knives. At one time I considered trying to find one for my collection but never followed through. In reality I don’t think I would try anymore.

I think that I would get more enjoyment from finding an AKM bayonet to go with my M7 collection.

 

[Pinemoon]

Pictures?

CE-21 by Pine Moon, on Flickr

From an article in SWAT magazine
https://www.swatmag.com/article/cutting-edge-striders-db-concealable-crowbar-edge/

Original prototype is in the center. On the left, top to bottom, are an early production version, the Gunner Grip and a prototype DB-L made for a firearms manufacturer. On the right, a current production model, one of the Ontario PD Air Support Unit models and the DB-L NSN as issued in the USMC Assaulters Kit.


This is a good example of what I'm seeking in this thread. This knife began in the late 1990s as a Strider WB and appears to pre-date the modified Emerson SARK. (P-SARK) in post # 70 here. Dan Bolke (long retired, possibility deceased) looks like one of those who thought outside the box in law enforcement. He consulted with two manufacturers, Strider and Emerson, and took existing knives as a blueprint to expand on his specific needs. Pretty cool. I wonder if his California departments are still using these products.

Thanks T tusk212