Custom Knife Collectors Association – Any in

[kamkazmoto]

I'd love to hear more. It sounds like a great idea.

 

[Kevin Jones]

If it is to be a forged knife collectors association, hopefully that would mean all forged knives. I definitely wouldn't be intereted in it being the ABS Forged Knife Collectors Association.

Yes, ALL forged knives. I feel we would complement and supplement the ABS, from a collectors prospective however be totally separate and independent of them.

 

[Hmathews]

I'm interested. I have been collecting knives for about 40 years, made knives off and on for the same time and pretty much full time for the last 5. I freely admit that I have collected both forged and stock removal knives without consideration for the method of manufacture. I also really enjoy making knives using both the stock removal method and forging. If I join this organization, and it is a forged knife collectors association, does this mean that I have to go to rehab in order to become a voting member?

Seriously, I like the idea and will try to support it how ever I can. If I had my choice, it would be a hand made knife collectors association, with no ties to any other organization, but working with other organizations to promote the hand made knife and the collector.

 

[RWS]

I'm a little confused(which I find happening lately), but why would stock removal customs not be represented?

I know the custom knife forum here hypes the forged stuff a lot, and I like forged knives, but I think it would be a mistake to create something that's intended to help the custom knife collector and community and focus on just forged knives.

I guess it just boils down to what the goals of the association really are trying to accomplish for it's members.

 

[DWinkler]

I think the concept is a good one. But I think it should be left open to include stock removal knives in the future. Starting with a more controllable format to get started makes sense.

I'll do whatever I can to help out.

Daniel

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Kevin, what are people that are thousands of miles apart going to be able to do to assist in making a go of this Association? I would be willing to do whatever I could, but would not likely be able to attend meetings, so what I would do would have to be able to be accomplished from home.

 

[SGerman]

If it's going to focus on only forged blades then the title needs to properly reflect that as the phrase "(Hand) Forged Knife Collectors Association" does very nicely.
To use the more general "Hand Made Knife Collectors Association" and then exclude stock removal knives could send the message to the public that SR knives are somehow inferior or not worth the time. That preception could really hurt alot of good knifemakers out there and knifemaking as a whole, not to mention the possibility of polarizing knifemakers between one dicipline or another if things accidentally got snippy.
The title of the organization really, really needs to be well considered. As for myself, I'm quite interested and like the idea of an collector's association.

Just my .02, spend it how you like.

 

[ptgdvc]

How about:

Custom Knife Collector's Association, or CKCA for short.

The purpose of which is to recognize and promote the importance and value of handmade knives in the 21st century, and to support the craft and the artistic expression, of the individuals who design and make them.

I think that would make the tent big enough to draw interest from both the forged and stock removal collectors.

Any thoughts?

 

[SharpByCoop]

The name is important. As would have to be the case, the distinctions are going to get things complicated.

Forged? Uhhh, that just lost 80% of the market. Handmade? Uhhhh, sure. But by who's definition? Let's not revisit this for the umpteenth time.

I own CNC-machined folders by Larry Davidson, Kevin Wilkins, RJ Martin, James Bros., and Darrel Ralph. Do they qualify? You know the answer--of COURSE they do!

In the Mission Statement substitute the word handmade to 'single maker' and it's a closer reality. I suppose the handmade CNC qualifier is the 21st Century, right Senator Gill?

Another wrench clogging up a smooth gearbox...

Coop

 

[Kevin Jones]

How about:

Custom Knife Collector's Association, or CKCA for short.

The purpose of which is to recognize and promote the importance and value of handmade knives in the 21st century, and to support the craft and the artistic expression, of the individuals who design and make them.

I think that would make the tent big enough to draw interest from both the forged and stock removal collectors.

Any thoughts?

That's certainly a worthy statement Peter, however does it better describe a knife maker's association rather than a collectors association?

Are we looking to draw large interest here initially, or more to start a smaller more focused organization?

Just playing devil's advocate here?

 

[ptgdvc]

That's certainly a worthy statement Peter, however does it better describe a knife maker's association rather than a collectors association?

I think the mission statement could work for both makers and collectors. I think the interests of both groups co-inside to a very large degree. The primary difference would be one of perspective. The Collector's Association would be primarily interested in educating and benefiting the buyers of custom knives.

Are we looking to draw large interest here initially, or more to start a smaller more focused organization?

I have an open mind on the subject.

Coop,

Wrestling with definitions would be part of the fun.

P

 

[Kevin Jones]

I agree Peter, for the most part what benefits one benefits both.

I put collector education and increasing the collector base towards the top.

As Jerry so eloquently put it "we have too many makers feeding from the same trough".

 

[NickWheeler]

The parameters are going to be very difficult to set (IMHO).

If it's all forged blades, you're going to have a HUGE amount of people looking at it as some sort of elitist group. However, I can certainly appreciate that this is a huge undertaking, and trying to encompass EVERYONE would be a bit much to chew.

You're simply not going to make everyone happy.

If you make sole-authorship a requirement, will knives like those made by Buster Warenski (when he used Paul Bos as a heat-treater) not be in good standing?

If it's all hand-forged, do you realize that you're going to knock off nearly every Mastersmith from the list, as most all of them have at least one power-hammer and/or press? Is this semantics regarding "hand-forged" ??? Maybe!

My advice is to not try and be too warm and fuzzy and accomodate EVERYONE... but if you get too particular, you'll have very FEW knives/makers that will get any collectors through your door.

 

[ptgdvc]

I put collector education and increasing the collector base towards the top.

The purpose of collector education is to create more discerning and demanding buyers who will continually require higher levels of fit, finish, and design from makers. It is also the frank discussion and exchange of opinions concerning whose workmanship represents the highest level at any given price point. It also would necessarily include discussions and opinions of who is merely average or substandard.

An increase in the the size of the collector/buyer base would be helpful to both the makers/sellers and collectors who sell on the secondary market. BUT frankly I think this is an area where the makers/sellers must have the primary responsibility. It is frankly time for some of them to step up to the plate and deal with THEIR OWN marketing issues, or at least quit pissing and moaning about it.

Now that I have pissed everyone off, I am going to bed.

P

 

[mohd]

How about:

Custom Knife Collector's Association, or CKCA for short.

The purpose of which is to recognize and promote the importance and value of handmade knives in the 21st century, and to support the craft and the artistic expression, of the individuals who design and make them.

I think that would make the tent big enough to draw interest from both the forged and stock removal collectors.

Any thoughts?

This is something I would like to join. The definition looks clear and covers most :thumbup:

 

[Michael Lovett]

Too many makers feeding from the same trough? I've Been hearing this same old saw since before the Guild was founded. So many makers were worried that others would learn their secrets. Get to know their customers. And yep, It all happened. And here is what happened. American custom knife making went from an obscure, mostly unknown endeavor, to a very large market. Huge shows, unreal dollars spent on knives. In ways that would never have been dreamed of just a few years ago. Life is good. But how did we get to where we are today?

Loveless and a few others wanted to found the Guild to promote hand make knives, and to have an avenue for an exchange of information, techniques, interest, and business practices. It was a major step. Without which, none of us would be here on this or any other thread discussing hand made knives. Forged, or stock removal. Now I am seeing the same old fears here in this thread. Forged only. Hand forged only. Single authorship only. on and on. Nothing changes it seems.

Forget the fact that the very folks that started the custom knife revolution in this country for the most part weren't forging. Forget that most of them started out forging. As did I. Do remember that before Bill Moran re-popularized Damascus that forging was considered an out dated method of making a knife. Forget that what was being made by most forgers of the time, was extremely crude by the stock removal artist of the time. today is a new day. The forgers have really come of age. The work many times rivals anyones. Damascus is no longer a camouflage to hide poor grind lines, and workmanship. But truly an art form unto its own. But in the custom knife world, This is still fairly recent. To exclude one or the other is dead wrong. Especially to exclude the methods that started the movement in this country in the first place.

The old statement " a house divided can not stand" could never be more true.

To start a collectors asst. to promote collecting of fine knives is an admirable goal. To exclude the largest segment of the collectors. Especially potentially some of the biggest movers and shakers in the knife collecting world would be naive. If not down right arrogant. Take a look at what knives are bringing record dollars. In fact just over the last year! The highest prices in history have recently been paid. And the pieces weren't forged. Next year may be different. Point is, the market is in Hand make knives. Not just one small area of them. It would be just as foolish to start an engraved only collectors asst. Ivory only. Polished only. The list could go on forever. It has been suggested to me by dealers, and collectors alike that to post on blade forums is a waste of time. That it has become only a private club for forged knives. I don't feel this strongly about it, but what is being suggested here is a perfect example. If this is the case, why not simply call it the B/F collectors asst.?

The is a fantastic world of Knives out there folks. Go to shows. Get to know more and more makers. Buyers. Try not to be so prejudice of others likes or dis-likes. Many here would be shocked at just how close the methods are between forgers and stock removal artist. It really gets down to How to work simple Carbon steel, and how to work Hi-alloy steel. Something most collectors are clueless about. Knife makers make them, collectors buy them. It really is that simple.

 

[ptgdvc]

Michael,

I thnk all the points in your post are right on target. :thumbup:

There is also nothing that prevents the larger "umbrella association" from having specialized divisions dedicated to specific areas of the craft. I don't currently collect folders, but I would certainly appreciate the concentrated expertise of a dozen hard core folder collectors with decades of experience on the subject, if I decided to collect them.

P

 

[RogerP]

To start a collectors asst. to promote collecting of fine knives is an admirable goal. To exclude the largest segment of the collectors. Especially potentially some of the biggest movers and shakers in the knife collecting world would be naive. If not down right arrogant. Take a look at what knives are bringing record dollars. In fact just over the last year! The highest prices in history have recently been paid. And the pieces weren't forged. Next year may be different. Point is, the market is in Hand make knives. Not just one small area of them. It would be just as foolish to start an engraved only collectors asst. Ivory only. Polished only. The list could go on forever. It has been suggested to me by dealers, and collectors alike that to post on blade forums is a waste of time. That it has become only a private club for forged knives. I don't feel this strongly about it, but what is being suggested here is a perfect example. If this is the case, why not simply call it the B/F collectors asst.?

Many valid points have been made in favor of including knives of all kinds - your assertion that a forged-blade collectors association would be "arrogant" is not one of them. Tell me Mike, is it "arrogant" to prefer folders to fixed blades? It is "arrogant" to prefer tacticals to all else? Is it "arrogant" to prefer Loveless knives (and their many derivatives)? I don't think so. It's just a matter of preference. I prefer forged blades. That's what I collect. That's what I like. That's what interests me. My preference for forged blades is NOT the equivalent of an assertion that all other blades are inferior or unworthy. That WOULD be arrogant (as well as foolish).

A collectors' group grounded in the forged blade field would be no more "arrogant" than one focussed on any other category of knife.

Perhaps your viewpoint would be less lop-sided if you removed that giant chip from your shoulder.

As for your claim (which you conveniently pass off on un-named dealers and collectors) that BF has become a private club for forged blades only - that is nothing less than bullshit of the first order. A "private" club of necessity means that others are excluded. This is a custom knife forum. If forged blade enthisiasts are among the most active on this forum, that's just the way it shakes out at this particular point in time. Collectors and fans of other types of knives are by no means excluded - I challenge you to provide a single example of same. This isn't like complaining to your local cable channel about programming content. On the forums, the participants ARE the content. If people want to see more stock-removal knives (or whatever) then go ahead and post them.

Of course, some just find it easier to grouse and complain and whine and call other people arrogant. Thus has it always been.

Roger

 

[Mark Williams]

"Most all of the discussion has been towards creating a forged blade collectors association in that most participants in these discussions have been forged blade collectors. "

Amazing how things can get off track from the original concept.

 

[ptgdvc]

Amazing how things can get off track from the original concept.

As we are having an open exchange of ideas, NOTHING is "off track".

It may turn out that only forged blade collectors have enough interest and desire to get an Association off the ground, in which case, limiting the scope of the organization would make perfect sense, imho.

P