Custom Knife Collectors Association – Any in

This is a very nice discussion. :thumbup:

The title of the thread is "Custom Knife Collectors Association-any in"

I don't see how we've gotten off track with anything said here.

The "everyone's invited to the party" which is implied in the title of the thread has taken a focus toward just forged blades, which just seems odd to me as a collector of both methods of production.

Daniel and others, I'm again confused at the mentality that including stock removal would create a quantitative, or qualitative, burden on an association of collectors. Especially, one that's in the embryonic stages of development which could start out including both. Especially, if it started out the gate as an all inclusive custom collectors association, as the title to the thread suggests.

I appreciate that some collectors here will only acquire a custom knife if it has been forged, but I'm not one of them(I like knives from both methods)...and my guess is that most custom collectors aren't forged only types.....just a guess mind you.

I think that some here are a little too quick in the discussion to write off and exclude a major section of the collectors of custom knives without some sort of rough understanding of what the incremental or marginal association costs/benefits are that might be incurred/lost by including or excluding stock removal collectors in favor of forged only collectors.

If the success of the association hinges on starting out slowly focused on only one method of production, which I'm still wondering why that would be the conclusion without more understanding of what's involved, it would seem to me that starting out with a stock removal only focus instead of a forged only focus would get more bang for the buck in terms of long-term membership growth potential....but, I think to exclude either method doesn't ring right.

With that said, unless someone can sit down and really gain an understanding of what will be involved in starting this thing from scratch, addressing matters including association administration issues, membership logistics, membership benefits, projected association costs and member fees, and a very well defined mission statement to start out with, I'm not sure why anything would be excluded from this brainstorming discussion.

If it has already been determined that the association is one for forged interests only, then someone here probably should eventually come up with the association's mission statement and broad objectives so the ideas people are offering here are somewhat guided toward those goals.
 
Well atg least it got to page three before it became personal.

I can tell you that the one thing you MUST have is ONE person who will spend both money and time working on the organization. SomeONE has to organize the commities and handle the money and see that the forgetful pay their share.

If you think that there are enough people of this type out there for the single maker crowd, the stock removal people, the "hand" forged only (no power hammers?) and the tactical, and the folders. Then I think you are wrong, you will be lucky to find enough for a board (half of which will do no work) for one organization.

This could be a wonderful organization, I suggest that you call it either the Custom Knife Collectors Association or the Hand Made Knife Collectors Association and work out a definition of what is hand or custom made. If you insist on single authorship or no cnc you will just encourage lying, this ruined the Guild. If you require the makers to simply tell the truth about how they achieve their wonderful results you will find enough members who love the work. Focus on the quality of the knife, not how that was achieved.

Please do not try to do this with $5 a year membership. I am up for whatever you choose to do, count on my check as soon as you have a place to put it.
 
RWS,

Sorry if my post came across that I was more in favor of an all forged knife collector society. Personally I would rather see a more all-inclusive organization. I worded my post as I did because some of the people that have expressed a desire to get this organization started were in favor of limiting it to a forged knife only group. I was merely suggesting that if this was the case it might be wise to leave the door open to include other knife styles later.

For the record, I hope this new organization gets off the ground and includes all types of non-factory knives. If, for example I am involved and the organization only accepts "forged knives" then I miss out on the opportunity to attract new customers that now collect tactical knives and may not get the chance to view my work. If they get the chance to see what I do, a few may be attracted to my style. If they are excluded from the start I have no chance of having them as customers.

I must look at this from a business viewpoint since I am a maker and not a collector. Any endeavor I put time into needs to somehow payoff.

Daniel
 
My opinion is still that any Custom Knife Collectors Association should include both forged and stock removal knives. I really don't think that it would be that much more work to make it so, and I would be willing to do whatever I could to be of assistance in making such an organization prosper. It would also open the Association up to far more collectors, which would mean a much higher revenue to work with.

My whole collection is made up of forged knives, but I just think that including forged and stock removal knives would be much more interesting and educational. If it starts out being for forged knives only, it is likely to stay that way. Leaving the door open for future inclusion of stock removal knives is well and good in theory, but without a large motivating influence, it is unlikely to happen.

As my collecting becomes more diverse, I am going to want to be educated on stock removal knives and makers. For me, a forged knife only Assocition would be more of a club, and would not help me to expand my knowledge of custom knives in a way that would be as beneficial to me as it could be. If one of the goals of the organization would be to bring in more collectors to the world of knives, it is my opinion that excluding stock removal knives would hinder that objective greatly.

It would be unfortunate if at some time in the future there are threads about the Custom Knife Collectors Association that point out that it could have been so much more than it has turned out to be. It is my opinion that including only forged knives would be myopic.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Hopefully they will be taken in the spirit that they were given. If this Association is going to come to fruition, it is my hope that it will be all that it can be.
 
You are going to have to start thinking of how you are going to manage your show, at least one a year where you can meet to do business as well as show off your knives. You will probably want to start off by taking a block of tables at the Blade Show, but, with the Guild in such a state of decline you want to move as soon as you can to build a show for the makers you admire. Well run shows can well support the association. You need to do this your self not with paid help.
 
It would be in the best interest of all, to include collectors of any and all Hand Made Knives.

We are all on the same team.
 
I agree that it would be best to include all aspects of knives.It sounds as if folks would like this to be a influential and important organization,and I hope it comes to fruition.There seems to be lots of interest,but with some debate.I think what will happen if/when this gets off the ground is that it will lead it's way by the people who are actually going to jump in and give of themselves to make it happen.So if you all want it to be all encompassing it's gonna need an initial board of directors that is just as diverse as the knives we collect.If the initial start up group are mainly forged blade collector's,that is where thier expertise and passion lies,so that is where the focus will naturally lean to.I hope there are plenty of folks with the time and passion from both forged collector's and stock removal collectors to get together and be able to make something of this.It appears to me to be a huge undertaking,but I think from what I've read on this thread it sure could happen,and I know I'd like to see it.
 
I love custom work, but collect only folders, does that mean I would be excluded from this fraternity or club because folders are my passion? To be successful, I would think you need to consider some other folks like myself, otherwise, I am out.
James
 
There are many ways to limit the scope of this organization so that it stays manageable. In my humble opinion, limiting the method of production is not the right one.
 
Here we could read few threads with so many good points on this whatever Custom Knife Collectors Association .. while on the other side .. there is a dormant Collectors International with only 7 members!

I think few collectors has to proactively form a sort of nucleus or a pro tem committee and make all this to really happen :thumbup:
 
mohd said:
Here we could read few threads with so many good points on this whatever Custom Knife Collectors Association .. while on the other side .. there is a dormant Collectors International with only 7 members!

I think few collectors has to proactively form a sort of nucleus or a pro tem committee and make all this to really happen :thumbup:
Click to expand...

It did have 7, now 8. I joined.
James
 
How many successful custom knife associations or organizations of any configuration are there or has there ever been?

Has anyone here mentioned excluding ANY collector, maker or dealer as a result of what type of knife they collector, make, sell or for any other reason for that matter?

How many of us know how much time, resources, effort and passion it takes to manage, finance and keep moving forward even a very focused association of say 200 members?

Those of us with grandiose ideas and visions of being everything to every collector, how many hours can you spare a week to dedicate to this project?

Not trying to be a smart ass here, just throwing out things that need to be considered.
 
I have read most all of the lately related threads to these discussions on BF, but haven't felt I could contribute a whole lot... as I collect a myriad of knife styles, from Case, William McHenry, CRK, hey, even some old Cold Steel Tantos, through to some of the knives of several of the stock removers and hot forgers mentioned over these pages.

I realize that the gist of this particular thread is geared towards "custom" makers, and I don't want to pursue the differentiation that would ensue with regard to that term...

But this is where I got to thinking (uh-oh! :o)...

Given that the proportion of "Custom" collectors is probably less than 20% of those that actually frequent Blade Forums alone, I'm not sure an exclusive club, as it were, would really benefit the world of collectors... Not to mention the aforementiond devisiveness regarding forging and stock removal...

Take a look at the Blade show.. While I have only been to one, it seems to me, that while put on by the ABS (if I have that right?), the majority of table displays are concerned with non-"Custom" knives, from factory knives through to simple collections...

And I realize that there are many local collectors clubs, such as the two I belong to, the OKCA and the NWKC, which may render my following thoughts as irrelevant...

Maybe I can ask a question: What if NO category was excluded, and this new organization, maybe called "The International Collectors Org." had it's sub-sections.. Like Hand Forged, Stock Removal Sole Authorship, Traditional Folders, Tactical Fixed and/or Folders, etc.?

I realize this isn't what the main question in this thread is about, but I do believe that by widening the base, a greater organization might actually survive, simply due to it's broader interest base... not to mention revenue base... Heck, maybe a show on each coast could actually grow out of this based on the where the greatest concentrations of members are located?

Please realize, this is all just my opinion, and the random babblings of an eclectic collector stuck out here in the Great Northwest who finally stopped and took a break from moving attorney's offices, on a holiday that they don't take off, so they can get a better view!! :D
 
Kevin Jones said:
How many successful custom knife associations or organizations of any configuration are there or has there ever been?

Has anyone here mentioned excluding ANY collector, maker or dealer as a result of what type of knife they collector, make, sell or for any other reason for that matter?

How many of us know how much time, resources, effort and passion it takes to manage, finance and keep moving forward even a very focused association of say 200 members?

Those of us with grandiose ideas and visions of being everything to every collector, how many hours can you spare a week to dedicate to this project?

Not trying to be a smart ass here, just throwing out things that need to be considered.
Click to expand...

I don't want to seem argumentative but you seem frustrated about the ideas that people have offered. Without a doubt, this type of thing will take a lot of work, no matter what you do.

Maybe I'm wrong but I'm imagining that you already have an idea in your mind of what you were hoping this might become, which is fine.

Tell us what you have in mind for a new collector's association, Keith.
 
I'm in.

You guys are covering a lot of possibles and I know you will work it out.

I personally think the association needs to foster good will and support for both schools of knifemaking thought. It can only help to create a larger pool of interest and the crossover would be good for Forged knives as well as Stock Removal. Subgroups will naturally manifest themselves, but still be covered by the "umbrella" that Peter mentioned.

Also, I think you have to ask yourselves how other established entities might best recieve this new association? In my mind, groups like SCI, NRA, etc. would view the new Knife Collector's Association as an ally in spirit, even if the exact purpose is geared for collecting. I believe there should be more Co-Operative efforts between the major sporting related groups. Each of the major sporting groups already has a magazine, does advertising and recruiting, etc. Could SCI or NRA or Blade Magazine form a cooperative to trade add space to help cross pollinate and create new members? Imagine how this would help the new Collector's Association.

Lin
 
Kevin Jones said:
How many successful custom knife associations or organizations of any configuration are there or has there ever been?

Has anyone here mentioned excluding ANY collector, maker or dealer as a result of what type of knife they collector, make, sell or for any other reason for that matter?

How many of us know how much time, resources, effort and passion it takes to manage, finance and keep moving forward even a very focused association of say 200 members?

Those of us with grandiose ideas and visions of being everything to every collector, how many hours can you spare a week to dedicate to this project?

Not trying to be a smart ass here, just throwing out things that need to be considered.
Click to expand...

Kevin - maybe you have specifics you want to share on what the actions of this organization could be?
 
Just a hint guys. Most new organizations spend the bulk of their time trying to get members to join and deciding what services or value they will provide to attract members. I've not run into an organization in the making that has spent this much time talking about who is in and who is out.
 
RWS said:
I don't want to seem argumentative but you seem frustrated about the ideas that people have offered. Without a doubt, this type of thing will take a lot of work, no matter what you do.

Maybe I'm wrong but I'm imagining that you already have an idea in your mind of what you were hoping this might become, which is fine.

Tell us what you have in mind for a new collector's association, Keith.
Click to expand...

No RWS, you are not argumentative at all. Actually, thanks as others are probably thinking what you are asking.

Not frustrated about the ideas at all, in fact invite and welcome them. As I mentioned, several of us have been kicking this around for a while and had quite a bit of discussion at Jerry's. Some had hinted that it may be better to take the "Field of Dreams" approach. You know, the voice that kept telling Kevin Cosner "build it and they will come". But wanted to get ideas and "outside of the box" thinking from the experience and great minds here.

The frustration you are seeing is probably more concern, that we all see a great need for an association and the excitement may cause us to raise our expectation too high in regard to what we can initially create and maintain.

Some here are a little dismayed with the ABS as of late but let's face it, that's a strong organization that was built to precision and they have done enormous good over the many years. A handful of members initially started the organization with great focus, commitment and passion and have been helped by others like Jerry Fisk who have worked hard to continue it's progress and help make it what it is today.

We (all of us) started the BFB Bowie Charity this year. Very cautiously built it to the point where we got some great exposure (more with the coming Blade article), one of our members won a great Bowie and we mailed a check to the Breast Cancer Research Foundation the other day in the amount of $7319.24.
We had focus, control and didn't bite off more than we could chew. We now have processes and an accounting system in place that anyone with a key stroke can see where every penny came in and went out and all kind of ticket sales data.
Now next year if we go forward; with contacts we've made, advertisement, charitable status and possibly getting matching corporate funds, the amount this year may only be a drop in the bucket in comparison.

I was a member for 8 years and president for 3 of a state association (about 200 members) of a national automotive wholesaler's association. Even with a very involved and energetic board and membership and a staff administrator who stayed busy 40 hours a week it took a lot of work and responsibility.

My point is that I would like to see us use the ABS and the BFB as models in building the collector's association in starting small scale with focus, rather than trying to quickly start an organization that's everything to everybody.

So that's my 2 cents, now let's get back to productive discussion. :thumbup:
 
:joeshredd: Take a look at the Blade show.. While I have only been to one, it seems to me, that while put on by the ABS (if I have that right?), the majority of table displays are concerned with non-"Custom" knives, from factory knives through to simple collections...
Click to expand...

Joe, the blade show is put on by Blade Magazine. It has 4 sections of tables (approx, 150 tables per section) which are:

1 Hand Made
2 Guild
3 ABS
4 Current/Antique Production

The booths around the show room are: production knives, accessories, handle materials, etc.

I would bet that the majority is hand make knives.
 
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