Custom Knives, A Crap Shoot?

anthony cheeseboro

anthony cheeseboro

Joined
Aug 8, 1999
Messages
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Since 1999, I have bought maybe twenty-five customs and I presently own about eight. The more I think about it, I'm seriously considering cutting back future custom purchases drastically. The first reason is purely economic, I was buying more than budget could sensibly allow for a while out of sheer enthusiasm for the hobby. The second reason for the cutback is that I really feel that the quality of customs simply is not high enough to justify the prices in many instances. I have bought more than a few knives from esteemed makers that had pretty glaring flaws. This in itself is not always a problem, these knives are hand made and people make mistakes. Some knife workers I have dealt with are real gentlemen and are on the ball when it comes to making their knives perfect as humanly possible. I would like mention A.T. Barr, Mike Obenauf, and Larry Chew, Brian Tighe, and Greg Lightfoot as makers that I found to be responsive and professional. Others, who shall be nameless, act as if a customer asking for service is a pest to be ignored.

The bottom line is that I think its easy to get hypnotized by anodized titanium, carbon fiber, mastodon ivory, damascus, and exotic hi-performance steels. I've seen too many knives with all the bells and whistles that failed to lock up as tight as an Outdooredge or CRKT import. I've seen too many high-end tacticals that were no where near as sharp as a $30 dollar Spyderco or Cold Steel. I can really see more clearly why Chris Reeve has such a strong following because you will never see one of his knives that fails in lockup or sharpness. The same goes for William Henry.

I think that my experiences are not unique. What do you guys have to say?
 
I gotta agree with you. While my "custom" experiences are limited, I was able to find flaws in all of them. One was even from a very well known and respected maker. Granted, the flaws were minor, but for the price it should have been better. I've found better fit in knives costing 1/4 the price.
Not to beat a dead horse, but I do not believe you can find better fit, finish, and quality than Chris Reeve. I haven't experinced a William Henry so I can't comment on them. Hopefully someday soon.

Paul
 
I will agree that William Henry and CRK produce very consitant, high quality results, but they aren't perfect. Thursday, I came across an unused William Henry Buttonlock folder that had the "inlays" falling out. I'm sure there have been some lemon CRKs too.

Not only that, but the high end WH and CRK offerings command prices just as high as custom knives.
 
I too have experienced the same thing. I am about as anal retentive as they come and when I found a flaw in a custom it just ruined my day. I know that you can expect some of this and a lot of folks say it is the beauty of the knife and to them makes itr worth even more. I finally rrealized that I was looking for perfection in a folding knife and that the Sebenza filled that desired. Even though I no longer own any Sebenza's ( I actually have only three folders now; a Camillus Cuda MAXX, a JWS Evolution framelock, and a Case Sow Belly!!:eek: :eek: :)) I still think very highly of them. The Cuda MAXX at a fraction of the cost of the real thing is as well put together and fitted as I could ever ask for it to be. The Evolution is the epitomy of the framelocker in my opinion, taliking about perfect fit, finish, and action, and the Case is the most used knife I have!!
 
I've gone the other way. I've got two great production knives which'll probably do it. I've got 4 custom knives, 4 on order and am always on the lookout. After going through a lot of all types I've developed a certain taste in knives where I know it when I see it.
As far as "flaws" I've only found one, really, in a custom knife. The maker is a perfect gentleman and there was no problem in returning it (since I almost cut my finger off when it kept opening up in my pocket).
So, to summarize: Custom knives are really about style and craftsmanship. One person's "flaw" is another's "one of a kind". Some customs are truly flawless in every way while some aren't. Those that aren't "flawless", though, are generally extremely well built and made with materials and a functional attention to detail that can't be duplicated by a machine.
Nothing wrong with production knives, though, but they just don't have that "pride of ownership" thing (or whatever it is).
 
I don't own any customs first off. As I have collected knives over the past 10 years I slowly got more and more expensive. Thinking more is better. About 2 months ago I came to the realization that if I continued I would be buying customs before Christmas. I have a problem as most of us do, when you see a knife that just "calls" to you, youjust have to have it. I started looking a customs and trying to decide and then I thought, I have around 50 quality knives and I can't possibly use all of them.
We all know we can't use tham all at the same time hence knife collecting. Where does it stop...? From the folks around here it does not stop at customs. 25 Spydercos later and I still want more.
Getting back to your question(sorry about that) I think it is a prestige thing to own custom. How many of you with customs use them like you would a Spyderco, BM, CRKT, Kershaw etc. They really can't be replaced, unless you have more money than Bill Gates to throw around.
Quality: If they are hand ground they can't be perfect but if they are CNC machined/stamped/blanked then they will be nearer perfect than the human hand could achieve. Are the worth it, if you ask the knifemaker they would say yes. For me no Ican do without, maybe in my lifetime I will save enough dough to buy one for special occasions and the such. Good question and sorry for getting a bit off topic. Take Care!!!
 
anthony, I've had my share of so called "custom" knives man. The problem with custom knives is that they never look like the ones you see online or in the magazines. There's always flaws here and there. I won't name any names but I will no longer buy "custom" knives. I've learned my lesson, NOTHING beats the Sebenza. I'm suprised some makers let CRAP leave their workshops and have the balls to charge big $$$. I'm not saying all custom knives are crap, just the ones I've purchased, which is a lot from well known makers too. People new to "custom" knives should beware!!
 
Ok Guys,

On the production side you are using names, Reeve and William Henry.

Now, in fairness to the custom side of the house you need to list specific makers aa well. Lumping all the makers together and making a generaliztion is unfair and not accurate.

As most of you know not all custom knives are created equally. Price may or may not be indicitive of the work.

As for edge retention, there is not a factory knife in the world sharper than a RJ Martin knife...Period.

Now, who are those custom knife makers your pointing the finger at. Who knows they may want to address your issues right here.
 
Okay, in fairness, I will name the makers I've bought from.
There's been too many to list, but the most disappointing "custom" knife I got was from:
- Darrel Ralph (Apogee), when I got this knife, I was so pissed at
the quality and craftsmenship that I returned it the very next day.
For $450.00, I was expecting something at least decent. Never
bought anything that had to do with Darrel Ralph again and never
will. I still have a copy of the receit to remind me.
 
In the past ten or fifteen years, the design and quality of production knives from the better companies has gone up and up. Today's top production knives are simply excellent and yet not as expensive as one might expect.

In the past ten or fifteen years, the number of custom knife makers has also exploded. Unfortuanately, not all of them are as good as one might like. As a result, the "average quality" of custom knives has probably gone down.

But, you don't have to settle for average. There are many excellent makers making excellent knives.
 
Would asking "what kind of flaws?" change the flavor of this thread too much? I am new to collecting and own no "custom" knives persay but I want to. I see some incredible works out there that I'd like to own. But, being new I am not sure I'd spot flaws unless it "damn near cut my finger off".

Anyway, I still hope to own a few of them.

JC III
 
I suspect we all have slightly different expectations, but I have been very pleased with my customs and in my interactions with their makers. None of mine came with anything resembling a flaw. All of them looked great and worked perfectly. They all had very sharp edges.

The makers I have worked with directly are Bob Dozier, Darrel Ralph, Larry Dougherty, and Günter Böhlke. They were all pleasant to communicate with and helpful in answering my questions. (I always seem to have a lot of those.)

I suspect that we all look for somewhat different things in a custom knife.
In my case the choice of a custom has always been driven by a desire for some particular set of features that I couldn't get in a production knife. My customs are all users, not art knives, although some of them are also quite pretty. :D

If someone is looking for a knife with significantly better fit and finish than what can be found in production that is going to be a harder standard to meet. Not because makers are sloppy, but because the best production knives have reached a level where they are very nearly flawless. How do you improve on perfection? :p

I don't doubt that there are poorly made customs out there. I'm sure that even the best makers occasionally miss something. But I don't think the group as a whole deserves criticism. Let's try to keep that on an individual basis. If particular knifemakers have unhappy customers that is well worth knowing.

--Bob Q
 
I have found some customs with things about them that I did not like, but I have only really bought ones that I have either heard more about or had a chance to see and handle in person. There are customs that I would buy without seeing just knowing the quality of the work of the maker.

Another thing to keep in mind, some makers get better with experience. I have had a Darrel Ralph Apogee before, thought it was ok, just not good enough for what I paid for it. Then I bought an EDC, much better quality and fit.

And there are plenty of customs that would dwarf the "perfection" that some have found in some of the best production knives.
 
It's hard for me to understand a problem with a Darrel Ralph knife. I have an Apogee and it's just fine. I have an EDC and it's even better. I have a Madd Maxx that made me realize the CUDA Maxx is great but not quite as great as the custom version.

I'm sure any maker could let a less-than-perfect knife out, but could some of that imperfection be in the eye of the beholder? Since a true custom is unique or very close to unique it is only fair to realize it may not seem perfect at first, and give the maker a chance to get it there.

I know some of the complaints are legitimate. Frankly, I've seen pictures of supposedly excellent knives that looked to me as if they'd been designed by space aliens. :p And mechanical defects shouldn't ever leave the workshop.

Also, I don't think it's fair to assume that even Chris Reeve or anyone else) lets a lemon go out sometime, if we don't know of any.
 
Esav Benyamin, believe me, if you have seen and touched the Apogee I purchased, it was horrible. I first thought it was a joke or something. The blade made contact with the rear spacer, the blade was not centered when closed, the blade was not sharp, not even close. Their was also blade play, lateral and vertical. IMO, it looked like a poor man's version of the sebenza.
On the other hand, I've bought several Kit Carson and RJ Martin knives and think they are awesome. From my experience Kit Carson and RJ Martin knives are always top notch and solid.

Oh and yes, I've bought several sebenzas that had some problems.
 
I very briefly had a custom forged bowie/fighter. I was thrilled to have ot as it was my first custom knife. When I held the knife edge-up and looked down the blade from hilt to point, the edge looked a bit wavy. I figures that it's just what a forged blade looks like, yet my $45 BK7's edge is straight as well, straight.
 
If you want a knife that will blow your sock's off, have him make you something "special". I have never run it anyone who was ever unhappy with one of his knives. (Anything's possible of course!) And if your not familiar with his work type his name into google and look at the knives on his site. A true ARTIST! I have one of his 3.5 inch blade basic "hunter's" and the fit and polish and craftsmanship is amazing for so simple a knife. I've seen "art knives" that didn't compare!
 
I must agree. . .the QA on production knives have made "massive" leaps and bounds (for the better) in the last several years. To stay in business. . .they had to. Which is a very good thing ! :D

One of the problems that I see. . .the inability to personally handle a knife when purchasing over the Internet or from magazines. Yeah, the stuff advertised looks perfect in the one-dimensional photos. Just like the food pic's at eateries. ;)

People are creatures of habit. . .they go into a store to purchase something (i.e., clothing) and they try it on for fit and inspect it for finish (defects). If it doesn't fit or there are flaws. . .it goes back on the shelf. Those that purchase, let's say clothing, without trying on or inspecting for defects have the ability to jump in the car and take it back to the store for a refund. Instant gratification kinda thing.

Knives are a little different. Let's say that I order from a maker. Sometimes there is a wait and sometimes there isn't (depending on the maker). Either way there is a wait. If it arrives from the maker with defects that the one purchasing finds objectionable. . .there's communication, return shipping, etc. No instant gratification.

And yes. . .custom-made knives should arrive without scratches on the bolsters, blade, clip. . .and other defects.

The sharpness of the edge also seems to be a big consideration. A lot of makers put a "working edge" on there wares. . .while there are a lot of buyers who want that "hair poppin' edge.

Prior to purchasing or ordering a custom knife I ask myself. . .is it going behind glass or is it going to be a user. Same with edge sharpness. . .do I want it like a razor or do I want a working edge. Once I answer those 2 questions. . .I proceed to communicate those desires to the maker or dealer, if necessary.

I can count on 2 fingers the number of times that I've received a custom knife that had defects. And that’s out of purchasing 175+ custom knives. Yeah. . .I wasn't happy. . .considering the visibility of the defects. On one knife. . .a little communication with the maker and within a very short time I had a primo knife returned. The other. . .oh well. :(

There are plenty. . .and I mean plenty of custom makers that have extremely high QA standards. And are well known for that. That's one reason why I intentionally gather their wares.

And this isn't restricted to makers. There are also plenty of dealers with extremely high standards. And I intentionally purchase wares that they sell.

One of the best ways to ensure that you receive a quality product is to communicate you specific desires to the maker and or dealer. It's your hard earned moolah !

Again. . .yes. . .custom-made knives should arrive without scratches on the bolsters, blade, clip,. . .and other defects. And a little additional communication goes a long way to ensure that you receive what you've ordered.

I highly doubt that there very many knife fit and finish return issues when folks are able to purchase knives at shows, makers shops or stores that carry custom knives.
 
My most disappointing custom purchase was a Greco Whisper. The main problem is that the scales don't properly match the tang, so there is a ridge of protruding metal both top and bottom along the handle.

Maybe I shouldn't complain due to the low cost of the knife, but I have seen $5 Pakistani POSs with better fitted scales.
 
anthony,
Have to agree with you on customs! I did get a Wild Bill Caldwell from you that I really enjoy,I have a couple of Hoot Gibson slipjoints that I really enjoy BUT I also have some Spyderco's I like! Will I buy more customs??I don't know!I buy depending on if I love the knife,if I get a poorly made custom OR production I will not buy from them ever again! Great ? thanks for making me think!
Jim
 
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