Custom Knives, A Crap Shoot?

Anthony, Good topic and some good responses. I can name a few names of makers who's knives I own and am very pleased with. There are only 2 knives from 2 makers that I have been unhappy with. I have a
Small model 4 from Kit Carson that is extremely nice, I had a Robert Terzuola folder that I only sold because I needed cash that was outstanding, a Shane Sibert fixed blade I really like alot and 2 Keith Coleman folders that are very nice knives, an Ed Caffrey EBK that is a great user and a great fixed blade by Cisco knives that has some wicked D-2. At this point I won't buy any knife or watch or any expensive item without seeing it in person first. That is probably the best advice I can give...
 
Hello,
I am a maker and would like to give my view on this topic
(1) The knives I make are made to best of my ability, and I think this will go the same with other makers.

(2) I have both custom and production knives. I can find flaws in all of them (grind lines, plunge grinds, scales thickness etc.)

(3) Ask a maker how the knife is made and if they make it themselves or the parts are sourced out and they put it together.

(4) Custom knives are a type of art-work, production knives are made so each one looks like the next.

(5) I dont think any maker will send a knife out knowing it has major mistakes, because after-all there name is on it. Yes I think some makers get to busy (backlogs) to make sure every knife is as perfect as the ones they made when they didnt have the buisness.

Thank you,
Gene Scaffe
 
I dont think any maker will send a knife out knowing it has major mistakes, because after-all there name is on it. Yes I think some makers get to busy (backlogs) to make sure every knife is as perfect as the ones they made when they didnt have the buisness.
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I hope something like this explains the poorly fitting grips on my Greco Whisper. Mr. Greco has had a good reputation as a knife maker offering excellent value in his knives.

It does make sense that one has to expect more irregularities in custom knives compared to factory knives. After all, a custom knife is made by one person, and that individual is going to have family, health, and other problems come up just like all of us. In a large company there is always someone to step in and fill the gap in these situations, so large companies are able to offer more consistent quality.
 
After waiting a long time for a custom knife to be made, it came with some flaws that I did not like, but did not have the heart to make a big deal about. figured I would forget about it. But they remain and glare at me every once in a while when I least expect it. I have always since remained in a quandary as to whether I should have said something about it.

On the other hand, I have received a custom knife with flaws from a very well known and very well advertised dealer, and I sent that sucker back as fast as it came. And that dealer today is still making it look like I did something wrong to the knife and tells others his side of the story as though it were fact. Conversation with others have revealed that "so and so" thinks he's slick and those persons went on to say they would only buy from that dealer if they had the chance to handle the knives in person before buying.
 
I would like to say that I did name makers who I feel provide good service. I would also like to add Bailey Bradshaw to that list of makers. The problems that I have been most common for me are lock problems. I have had too many folders with liner locks that would not hold under even moderate pressure. As I said earlier, if Columbia River can put rock solid liner locks on $30-$40 folders, $250+ customs should lock flawlessly. I have owned several folders that have bad vertical play. One is so loose that the shaking is audible.
The worst maker said he would have my knife fixed in August and he has since ignored all of my e-mails. If I do not hear from him by next week, I will go public with his name.
 
To Les Robertson,
The few "customs" I have/had had minor flaws, mainly in the fit/finish. Nothing major really. I have seen makers who, IMO, were producing knives that looked like some of the cheapest imports out there. Needless to say, I didn't buy any of these. The makers who's knives I have bought build a good quality knife. But you will not convince me that any of them are better quality than my CRKs. I will not mention names as no good could possibly come from it. They do build a good knife, but their quality can be beaten or at least equalled by many of the production companies in existance.
YMMV.

Paul
 
W.T. Beck - I think that Greco intentionally makes his handle scales less wide than the tang. Mine and every Greco I've seen does that. It's to enhance grip by adding texture, instead of a smooth transition between scale & steel, at least I think that's the idea. Many other knives are made like this (I think Scott Cook does this on some of his Owyhees, for example).
 
If fit and finish were the only things I looked at in a knife I don't think I would have ever gotten anything after my Buck knife.
 
I have owned quite a few custom knives and still own a few. I have only owned one production knife that was of the same caliber as my customs and that was a Wood Sebenza and even this knife did not impress me as much as most of my custom knives. This knife was sold after a very short time. As nice as it was I found it boring.

When it comes to using knives, I have two production knives and two custom knives that I use all the time. I have no problem using a four or five hundred dollar custom knife. There are knives that I collect that I do not use, but if I buy a custom user, it gets used.

It is too bad that so many people have such bad experiences with custom knives. Luck seems to have been on my side. Never have I had a custom knife with anything other a very minor problem or two. This can not be said of many of the production knives I have owned. I have run into more of centered blades, excessive blade play, poorly attached scales, dull blades and fit and finish problems in production knives than you can shake a stick at.

I have no doubt that many custom knives are far from perfect, but I can guaranty you that will be the case with many production knives as well, even the expensive ones.

There is one thing about threads like this that bother me. It is the fact that so many people complain about custom knives and custom knife makers, but say they don't want to mention any names. If you are not willing to name names then don't bring it up in the first place. Refusing to disclose who these makers are leaves an air of suspicion on all custom knifemakers.
 
Hi Paul,

I think all of us who ever bought several custom knives have received knives with flaws.

The main question is: Is the flaw(s) acceptable for the price of the knife?

I have looked at multi-thousand dollar knives that had "flaws". A few years back when I judged at the Blade Show the knife that won best folder won because it had the fewest flaws.

Of course at the price level of these knives. There were no CNC, Laser cut parts, etc. More than like a hand held file was the tool of choice for the finish work. All were incredible knives that anyone would be proud to put in their collection.

This asks the next question, when is a flaw a flaw?

Paul, lastly in my initial post I asked for names. I did so for two reason.

1) I was looking for commonalities.

2) I was hoping the makers would see this and respond.

By not naming names along with constructive critisism. You are not helping these makers.

I have a fairly wide spread reputation in the custom knife community of giving a fairly "brutal" assessment of a makers work.

I learned to do this the hard way after a somewhat embarssing incident. A maker asked me my opinon of his knife. It had obvious flaws and it was something I would neither buy nor recommend to my clients.

I then gave him the usual (usual at that time) answer "Nice Knife". He then asked me in addition to this knife did I want to buy any other knives he had.

It was at that point I realized the error of my ways. As now I had to come clean and tell him in fact it is not a nice knife.

After than I never told a maker it was a
"Nice Knife" unless it was.

If you buy knives with flaws and do not honesly critique them to the makers. Then you are giving bad makers false hope and you are not rewarding those makers who do it "right".

Of course listing names will do good.

As it will let the maker know they need to improve on their work. It will also let other collectors which makers work they should look "closer" at.

I guess my pet peeve here is that people will generalize about the quality or lack their of regarding custom knives. Few if any will ever back up their claims with names.

As such it takes away from the legitimacy of the thread.

This was starting to turn into "this is my favorite maker thread".
 
I think that Greco intentionally makes his handle scales less wide than the tang.
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That would make it more understandable, although it isn't to my taste. I have owned two other Grecos, and neither had this "feature", so I took it to be a flaw.

Personally I think retention enhancement could have been better achieved by putting some grooves on the inside of the forward guards, both top and bottom.
 
Originally posted by fishface5
W.T. Beck - I think that Greco intentionally makes his handle scales less wide than the tang. Mine and every Greco I've seen does that.
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My Greco Green River has very nicely fitted scales that match up well to the tang. The grip is very comfortable. I don't know if this is an exception or what. There is only one problem, the blade is not completely straight, which doesn't seem to affect it's usefulness. I like to think of it as a handmade user than a custom knife, especially considering the very reasonable price I paid for it.
 
Les:

With two exceptions, the makers who made knives I bought with bad locks were told about the shortcomings of their knives. On almost all occasions the situation was rectified. Although I cannot say so with certainty, it would appear that my recent threat to go public may have expedited the repair of folder with a weak lock and bad vertical play. I think that going public about a maker who responded favorably and fixed a knife tends to focus on a shortcoming instead of the positive customer service and gives the maker a more negaitve image then he or she deserves. On the other hand, I have mentioned names to other forumites on private e-mails when talking about trades or purchases.
 
I don't buy customs just to buy customs. I buy customs because I can't get what I'm looking for anywhere else. Because of that I kinda already know what to expect. I don't have the money to buy alot, so the customs I do buy are very well researched. If you look close enough I think you can find flaws in any knife, but as long as those flaws don't effect the performance of the knife, I'm okay with them.
 
Les,
I still will not name a single individual maker in this thread. CRK and WHK are not single individuals. I'm quite sure there are many, many excellent makers. There are some who make knives that I want and may even own someday. But I will not "attack" an individual, which is exactly how "constructive" critcism is likely to be taken.

Paul
 
Another point that needs to be made is that there is a big difference between a respected dealer like Les giving a maker a critical assesment of a maker's knives face to face or even over the phone or via e-mail and a forumite posting an individual's name over the net before 20,000 potential customers. Unless a maker was really egregious or belligerent, I wouldn't subject an individual to a public dressing down. I know that when I miscalculate a student's test score or I make a spelling error in an article, I wouldn't want to be blasted worldwide on an education website.
 
Well then don't put an air of suspicion on all custom makers by making these statements. I have no problem with someone not wanting to name names. What I have a problem with is staements that leave it open to people's imagination what makers are being discussed. I consider this to be irresponsible. You guys can all say that you won't name names because you don't want to hurt these makers reputations, but in what you are doing you are hurting all custom makers reputations.

I will repeat, if you don't want to name names then don't bring it up in the first place. All you are doing is stirring the shyte and it serves no purpose other than to flame custom makers as a whole. These threads never seem to produce anything constructive and turn into nothing but a bunch of unsubstantiated whining and ranting.

Anthony, you mention a few names of those that have given you good service, but leave all others open for people to speculate about. When others don't name names how do we know that the makers that you have praised are not the ones that they have had trouble with? These types of threads give everybody the opportunity to bitch about custom knife makers without taking any responsibility for what they are saying.
 
From a consumer's point of view I am glad there is a place where I can read about both custom and factory knives, and learn what problems others have encountered in quality and service. There are times I wished I had read threads on this forum concerning certain makers and distributors before I placed an order. It would have saved me alot of needless hassle.

I also think undeserved criticism of knifemakers is usually canceled out by someone who comes along and challenges what has been written - either another customer or the maker himself. When I called the protruding tang on my Greco a flaw, Fishface5 came along and said it was made that way on purpose. Of course I still don't like that protruding tang, but it appears that it is a design feature and not a manufacturing flaw. So Mr. Greco's reputation has been preserved, while customers still know that they might get a protruding tang on a Greco knife, which some, like myself, might not like.
 
I agree 100% that when you know what and who it is that is being discussed, then constructive things can come from a topic about someone considers a flawed knife or flawed customer service. If you do not know what maker or manufacturer is being condemned then I do not believe their is anything constructive in the criticism at all. As far as I am concerned it just becomes a bunch of ranting and whing that serves no good purpose at all, other than maybe a catharsis for the person doing the bitching.
 
Beings a knife consumer long before I was a knife maker, I see this problem from both sides of the fence. Any product that is handmade will have some cosmetic flaws in it. I think that there are many reasons for this, the human nature of ....rushing to meet a deadline, too many hours in the shop, late for a appointment, to much coffee,....etc. We all experince the times when our job performance isnt up to parr, even if you are the best in the business...Knife makers are no exception. I have a very critical eye beings I know what to look for, and I have seen customs by very well known makers with cosmetic flaws, does that make a knife junk? NO! I'm sure that the maker put everything he or she had into building that knife, and I'm sure it wasn't the intent for that flaw to be there.


As les has so dead on stated "IS THE FLAW ACCEPTABLE FOR THE PRICE OF THE KNIFE?" That is exactly how it should be looked at.
As a knife maker, I bust my ass on every knife I make, I give 100% to all knives that come out of my shop, no matter the price I'm selling them for, and still they won't be perfect, but we all strive for that.


Nameing a knifemaker whose product you are displeased with should only be done if there is consistant problems with that maker, or the maker was given a chance or two to fix the problem to your satisfaction, by either refunding your money or replacing/repairing the knife and it was still not right. There are many factors involved in a customer being displeased with a product, much of which probly can be fixed by the maker. Also, the perception of a knife between people can vary and would be unfair to the maker. The makers who have consistant flaws or bad customer service will eventually be weeded out by the knife market.


As Far as a mechanical flaw goes, It needs to be rectified ASAP. In a folding or auto, a lock that is not tight, or that has alot of play in the blade needs to be addressed, I think that it is a safety issue and that it should have never gotten out of the makers shop. It is a liability to the maker, and could seriously injur the customer.
 
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