Custom Knives; Now & Then?

jdm61 said:
I have mentioned this before, but what I have noticed over the last 15+ years is that customs knives in generally have gotten, for lack of a better term, "sleeker" You can even look at some of the fantastic pictures of the older knives in this thread and find a knife with a clunky, too thick guard, etc. There are other things. For example, it is very refreshing to see that every bowie coming out of Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana, etc., does not automatically have a flat oval guard with rope filework anymore.
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Great point Joe.
And yes, the ABS Bowie isn't what if was just 5 years ago.
It's amazing how these ABS Bowies have progressed in such a short period.
 
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Kevin Jones said:
It depends on what you mean by "Better"?

The new 2008 505HP Corvette ZO-6 @ aprox. $75K is considered by some to be the ultimate in automotive engineering and technology for a mass produced sports car.

Yet, is it "Better" than the 1967 435HP Corvette?
This car had a msrp of $4,600 yet examples have sold for over a million.

We tend to love nostalgia and things past.

Sorry to veer off course, but kind of relative to what's being discussed.
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good point Kevin, but what would that $4600 msrp be today in terms of car inflation? and the old corvette would be more akin to the base corvette than the z06, and those are a lot cheaper. and I'd take the 08 GT-R over a Z-06, lol

we cant let our love of things from yesteryear cloud our judgement
 
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Back on topic. My heroes/legends are:

- W.W. Cronk for his (outrageous) designs
- Buster Warenski for his daggers
- Wllie Rigney for following in the footsteps of W.W. Cronk
- Bob Engnath for his steel and scrimshaw talents
- Lloyd Hale for his art knives
- Virgil England for his imagination

My all time heroe is HUGH BARTRUG for his steel and the way he manipulated it including techniques that are even rare today (just look at the blade in Knives: PoI Book V on page 155), his outrageous designs and his versatility. Was his fit and finish up to par with today.....I guess/think not but I don't care. Almost all of his work has an aura/presence that is hard to find in most work that is done today. I own just one of his knives but I sure hope to add more to my collection in the coming years.

Marcel
 
severedthumbs said:
good point Kevin, but what would that $4600 msrp be today in terms of car inflation? and the old corvette would be more akin to the base corvette than the z06, and those are a lot cheaper. and I'd take the 08 GT-R over a Z-06, lol

we cant let our love of things from yesteryear cloud our judgement
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In terms of "car inflation" it sure wouldn't be a million $$$$$. ;)

The 67 L-89 was anything but "base". Though as listed as 435HP, many estimated it as much as 550-600HP. It was only available with AC, heater and radio "delete" as the US safety council thought it un-safe for use on the street by the general public. By only allowing it to be produced without the most general amities they figured it would only be purchased for "off road" racing.

As far as clouding our judgment, I agree but "we like what we like".

Now lets get back to old knives.
 
Marcel54 said:
Back on topic. My heroes/legends are:

- W.W. Cronk for his (outrageous) designs
- Buster Warenski for his daggers
- Wllie Rigney for following in the footsteps of W.W. Cronk
- Bob Engnath for his steel and scrimshaw talents
- Lloyd Hale for his art knives
- Virgil England for his imagination

My all time heroe is HUGH BARTRUG for his steel and the way he manipulated it including techniques that are even rare today (just look at the blade in Knives: PoI Book V on page 155), his outrageous designs and his versatility. Was his fit and finish up to par with today.....I guess/think not but I don't care. Almost all of his work has an aura/presence that is hard to find in most work that is done today. I own just one of his knives but I sure hope to add more to my collection in the coming years.Marcel
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I agree Marcel. There's very good post in this thread on the Legends of the past.
Thank you.
 
McAhron said:
Comparing Old Masters to New Masters really isnt fair.Today the tools and knowledge about design and manufacture of knives is limitless due to the internet,books,videos,and other media.The old-timers had to figure everything out on their own.Most of the tools were homebuilt.We are spoiled now with all we have availible.
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I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. To compare the two groups simply isn't a level playing field.

If you consider Makers like Scagel or Rudy Ruana, they forged knives to make a living! Neither had a wife that was a Lawyer or Registered Nurse bringing home the bacon so that thier husband could spend his time improving his "Fit and Finish". Of course there are exceptions to every rule so someone might look at a Michael Price piece and discount some of that. But, IMO they are the examples of the real "pioneers" of knife making. As times changed so did a lot of extinuating circustances in the lives of the knife maker.

As the lives of average folks improved and certainly as McAhron has intimated, the technology and distribution of knowledge improved the works of most makers. But even in those growth years the average Custom knife buyer did not demand asthetic perfection, they purchased for comfortable use an/or a higher level of performance. They USED their knives so that was what most important to them. Think of Richtig and Randall as examples.

IMO the Custom knife community as a whole began to see Makers that truly started to focus on the Fit and Finish in the mid to late 70's and early 80's, these were the enlightned and inspired years for alot of Makers.

No, what you are trying to compare are Model T's and Bentleys IMO. (not the same even though both had an engine and carried people from place to place).

The evolution of the knife making craft from one end of the spectrum to the other, I can see both ends but I wouldn't want to cut out the middle and place them face to face, I prefer to enjoy them as a whole and respect them both for their own merits.
 
Hillbillenigma said:
I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. To compare the two groups simply isn't a level playing field.

If you consider Makers like Scagel or Rudy Ruana, they forged knives to make a living! Neither had a wife that was a Lawyer or Registered Nurse bringing home the bacon so that thier husband could spend his time improving his "Fit and Finish". Of course there are exceptions to every rule so someone might look at a Michael Price piece and discount some of that. But, IMO they are the examples of the real "pioneers" of knife making. As times changed so did a lot of extinuating circustances in the lives of the knife maker.

As the lives of average folks improved and certainly as McAhron has intimated, the technology and distribution of knowledge improved the works of most makers. But even in those growth years the average Custom knife buyer did not demand asthetic perfection, they purchased for comfortable use an/or a higher level of performance. They USED their knives so that was what most important to them. Think of Richtig and Randall as examples.

IMO the Custom knife community as a whole began to see Makers that truly started to focus on the Fit and Finish in the mid to late 70's and early 80's, these were the enlightned and inspired years for alot of Makers.

No, what you are trying to compare are Model T's and Bentleys IMO. (not the same even though both had an engine and carried people from place to place).

The evolution of the knife making craft from one end of the spectrum to the other, I can see both ends but I wouldn't want to cut out the middle and place them face to face, I prefer to enjoy them as a whole and respect them both for their own merits.
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I look at the knife industry in general and it seems to me that the quality of customs had to improve, even in the user category. Customs sell because they are, well, customs. But in the past, I think they also sold because they were perceived as a superior tool to the sorry stuff that the mainstream cutlery industry was producing for the most part. Nowadays, with the advent of the specialty cultery firms, that line has been blurred a bit. Not only do the hard core collectors demand fit and finish, but you have to have that even on users to lure people away from the many fine options available from the better production companies. The custom knife community is partly responsible for the change in the production cutlery industry and now we have to compete with the monster we have helped create...lol, It is somewhat ironic that nowadays, someone like me can actually compete on price point with a goodly number of popular factory knives. The good news is that some folks are figuring out that the money that those factories spend on overhead, promotion, etc, added to the money that the dealer has to make is perhaps better utilized in the higher quality materials and personal service offered by the custom maker. While someone like me really can't compete on price with something like a Benchmade Griptilian, I can sure compete against a $375-400 Strider mid-sized fighter on an even footing.
 
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I think guys like Jim Schmidt and Fred Carter should be brought up a heck of a lot more in threads like this. :)
 
I forgot something... I'm pretty sure the lettering work that Hugh Bartrug did was etched into the steel, and not actually forge welded, seperate steel in the lettering.

I don't know that 100% though.
 
I think guys like Jim Schmidt and Fred Carter should be brought up a heck of a lot more in threads like this.
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Nick, you're absolutely right.

I forgot something... I'm pretty sure the lettering work that Hugh Bartrug did was etched into the steel, and not actually forge welded, seperate steel in the lettering. I don't know that 100% though.
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As far as I know he did both with the latter later on in his career. If I remember correctly his "Einstein" steel (E=mc2) was forge welded.

Marcel
 
Jose Reyes said:
Bladeandbarrel said:
I don't know, Anthony. To be mass produced the design would need to be easily reproduced by machinery. If there are too many "axis" to churn out quickly then even a popular design won't be considered. I tend to like a mix of Moran's styling queues during his career to make him my favorite but feel he has made some of the best knives in our history.

Thanks for sharing those pics, Kevin. Murray, at some point I'm going to save enough to buy that Pendray from you, it's one of my favorites... :thumbup:
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The ST-24 could be easily "mass" produced, its a flat ground fixed blade with a mortice tang and convex edge. The Japanese, Chinese and Mike Stewart could make plenty of that knife.

In fact, Moran has had 4 factory collaborations. None very successful. Can you name them? :)
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Kevin Jones said:
Bladeandbarrel said:
I'm primarily addressing past legends in this thread Anthony.
I would classify you and severedthumbs in the not many as I have come to expect you both to disagree with me on most subjects. ;) :)
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There's those who may question the fit/finish of some of Bill Moran's knives, however not many that will question that the ST-24 may the most significant custom knife design ever implemented.
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I find this to be a preposterous statement. Thats all. There are many, many more significant pieces than the ST-24.

A knife that was rarely made, little copied and never mass produced.

I like the knife enough that I had a really nice copy made but as far as significance, I don't think so.
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martinr said:
Speaking of fit and finish, let's not leave out RON LAKE. Sheer perfection.
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my thing with RL is this. yes it is perfect, but how long has he been making the same knife now? we should expect it to be perfect by now, not be amazed by it.
 
I don't think the ST-24 was that significant in terms of designs. I don't think it has started a legacy the way a few others have, with the Loveless drop-point at the top of the pyramid.

(Personally, I do like the ST-24 more than the drop-point, but that's because I'm a fighter & forged knives guy.)
 
Surprised nobody mentioned Bob Lum. Perfectly balanced (aesthetically and physically) and functional designs. Flawless fit and finish. His works are timeless and can be favorably compared to that of any maker from any era; right up there with Loveless (except Lum did it all).

It is my opinion that Bob Lum's American Tanto may be the most influential and prolific modern knife design created in the last 30-40 years.
 
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