Custom maker prices

S

Silverthorn

Joined
Apr 24, 2011
Messages
3,910
Ok guys is it just me or are there a lot of custom makers out there charging enough to put a fat down payment on a car, to buy one of their knives or axes?

When does the price stop making sense for the work put in, and the fact that it may be this persons total livelihood, and become this insane thing that so many of these guys seem to let it become ?

Realistically does a 2000 dollar knife cut better or last longer ?
Does a Winkler axe out perform an Estwing camp axe by 10 times to justify its asking price ?

I totally understand that better materials cost more, and experience is worth money, as well as time put into making something extraordinary.

Keeping that in mind thought I tend to find some of the prices that I see for custom work to be OUTRAGEOUS.

This is one of the reasons that I am a fan of Becker knives, and some other brands that are tough, good looking, well designed, and still priced in a way that at least with a few brands like Becker and Kabar belie their actual quality.

Does anyone else think that a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet?
Whats with the HUGE mark ups by some of these companies?
Its especially astounding to me when its a company that cad designs and cuts their knives..lol wth is the mark up for there ? Materials ? are the knives made out of unobtanium ?

Anyway, rant over .. but has anyone else noticed the same thing ?


Silverthorn
 
I think that "value" is in the eye of the beholder. What looks like an unbelievably high price to me might be a bargain to you. These makers and companies charge what the market will bear for their steel. As long as the guy (or gal) paying the $2000 for that knife (hawk - sword - widget) get's the money legally, their bills are paid and their family isn't being neglected, I say good for them.

Several years ago Mrs. Jester took me to a casino for my b-day since I had never been to one. She gave me $20 and said have fun (she knows I'm not much of a gambler). While we were there we watched a woman playing 2 different dollar slots, she was feeding $100 bills into each of them, probably lost $1500 in the 10 minutes we watched. As we walked out to our motorcycles, Mrs. Jester said it was such a waste of money. I told her what I wrote up above, and that someone might see us on two shiny motorcycles and say "What a waste of money".

Thanks,
Jester60
BH# = NADA (yet)

We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other.
John Adams
US diplomat & politician (1735 - 1826)
 
Not knowing specifically what knives/makers you're talking about, a couple of things come to mind.

Not sure why using CAD software to design a knife should automatically make the end product less expensive. My wife works for the company that makes Solid Edge, and licensing for that package is anything but cheap. It's nearly impossible to learn without access to tech support, and only current licensees get that access. Once you decline to upgrade to the latest version, access to tech support ends.

The machines that CAD software will automate are much more expensive than manual machinery.

It hasn't always been the case in my perusing experience, but many, if not most, custom makers use specialized and/or exotic steels. If you're machining D2, BG42, or variations of the S30V, S90V etc. steels a lot, you're going through a lot more cutting tools, not to mention that it takes longer to work those super hard steels too. Time is money as they say.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not justifying actually buying super high-priced knives. A lot of guys think Chris Reeves is the only name in folders worthy of their money, but I think there's several money-saving options out there that will get you just as nice a knife as a Sebenza. I have a Bradley Alias I that I EDC. I used to rotate it among other knives, but I hardly ever change up now. It's a minimum of $100 cheaper than a Sebenza and made out of Ti and S30V, so why someone would pay $400 for a basic, no-frills Chris Reeves piece that is certainly a great knife, but no better than my Alias, is quite the mystery to me. BTW, I spent $209 for the Alias brand new and got free shipping. When I said it was a "minimum" of $100 cheaper than a Sebbie, even that was optimistic for a used one, and an outright fantasy for a new one. They're usually $180 to $220 more new than what I paid for the Alias.

Point is, I'm with you, there's a limit to what I'll even consider paying for a knife that I'm going to use. But a lot of the pricing has a basis in fair margins based on time and materials and wear and tear on equipment and acquisition of software etc. Just because I can't justify spending what some makers are charging doesn't mean that those makers aren't justified in charging what they are for their work. If the market will bear it, more power to 'em.

Blues
 
I have a couple customs, but none of them have set me back more than $150 so far.
Yes, I own a Busse - and spent a chunk on it, for a few simple reasons -- if I ever decide I don't like/want it (need isn't really a question) I should be able to sell it in a hearbeat at somewhere between +/- 10% of what I gave for it; I wanted to see what the Busse hooplah was about; and I participated in the death chat that got the particular model made, so felt like I should support their effort in bringing to the customers.
 
a custom has more attention to detail, and you can get it anyway you want. i think both customs and productions are good, just different.
 
Eh, its a sharpened hunk of steel. Keep it in perspective. I have customs, some I use, others I don't. I'm buying a FBF Woodsman right now, will it get used? Yeah, it will. The only knife I know I won't ever use is my Reinhardt/Becker Kukri. It just means too much to me.

Other than that, they are just knives.

Moose
 
a simple question is: what is your time worth?

$10/hr? $25/hr? $50/hr? $100/hr?

what would ANY machinist worth their salt charge you for a one off custom part made from exotic steel?

and you probably want a sheath with that too ;)

if a knife maker takes less than 8 hours to make you a knife, and charges MERELY $50/hr to make that knife, that's $400 right? how long does it take to make a custom knife?

find out what your local car mechanic's hourly rate is. probably around $75 (and that's low in my area, try $90 most places), and all they are typically doing is bolting stuff on at best. they aren't typically making custom parts. oil changes? swapping in a timing belt? ASE training? okay, sure, but it's NOT rocket science.

as well, you probably want a frakking warranty as well.

now how much should a custom knife maker charge? yeah, that's what i thought. a one off, custom piece, designed to YOUR specs? you will get down on your KNEES and pray ;)

and it's really hard to compare to a knife brand like KaBar... they're spent countless $$$$$ up front to design everything, and hope to sell enough to make a profit.

a living wage... that's the ticket. course, it's not up to us to define what that means for the maker.

profit? bonus. seriously, if someone is stupid enough, i mean, saavvyy enough to buy a knife i made at $2000, gosh :) i'm all for it.
 
before i made knives, i progressed from productions to production customs and eventually to customs. in my life ive also come a long way in perspective. i was obcessed with money in my earlier days and thought 100$ for a knife was madness. as i matured i realized that you can feel quality in a hand made item.like actually feel it and enjoy that feeling. with the knowledge that you will get 75 years if your lucky the prospect of owning fewer quality hand made items rather than many cheaper ones was a simple path to choose for me.

although i think you can enjoy a 25$ knife as much as a 2000$ one i revell in that hand made feeling. maybe its because im an artist but i feel very strongly about hand made items. they are special beyond the materials and function.
 
Bladite said:
a simple question is: what is your time worth?

$10/hr? $25/hr? $50/hr? $100/hr?
Click to expand...

Good point. My wife and I own her salon. She charges more than anyone else in the shop but that is because she has many more years in the business and is quite frankly better. But I am still not sure why a knife should be $2k. What in the hell would take so long that would garner that price tag? I can see and feel the difference in firearms between a $200 gun and a $2k gun but I can't tell with blades. Vehicles are another easy way to feel the difference in the price tag (most of the time).

Given my wife just bought a custom knife today and she loves the feel and the weight distribution, so I am not against custom blades but I would love to feel the difference between a $250 knife and a $1500. To date, I have yet to handle one that I have said "Wow, this is definitely worth a few grand more."

Maybe one of you rich boys can do a pass around with a crazy expensive knife and teach me the value. But keep in mind, a $15 Mora will cut your finger off just as easy as a $750 custom. Trust me....:)
 
You guys are missing the point. I would guess a good deal of knives that are bought for over $750 never get used. So asking if there is a performance gap that justifies the price difference is barking up the wrong tree. People buy knives for many reasons, not just to cut with. When someone buys a fancy custom, or some other type of expensive knife, they're not necessarily doing it because there's a major performance gap. Heck, many of the "art" knives that sell for thousands of dollars probably perform worse at many knife chores than a $200 utilitarian blade. The point is that utility is only one measure of a knife. Other reasons people appreciate knives and want to own them include aesthetic design, collecting as a hobby, the artform of crafting something with skill and attention to detail, trying out something new in person, as a gift for someone, and flipping/investing. People are buying knives for all those reasons as we speak on this forum. If you're the kind of person who buys a knife just to use it, great! But don't think everyone else has to have the same reason. Some knifemakers focus on a hard use knife, others on the art of craftsmanship and detail, and others are trying to please their collector base meeting demand at $2000 a knife. Many flavors for many different folks.
 
I don't think I have even seen a $2,000 knife before. Even online. I suppose there are some that are covered in crystals and diamonds and weird stuff, in which case the materials would make up the cost. Materials can cost a lot. Crazy old mammoth tooth/bone/boogers coupled with gold and silver and rubies and such, and then toss some hardcore engraving on top of it, that would jack the price up pretty good I would think. Anyone got a link to a $2,000 knife? I would like to see one.
 
I agree with most of whats been said here, but lets be honest, OK. 90+ % of people can't afford custom knives. If you are in the small % that can, good for you. So for the rest of the masses, names like BK&T, ESEE, Ka-Bar, Ontario (sorry Toooj), Buck, Gerber, Cold Steel, & many more production knife companies fill our void. I am thankfull for them. I am glad some are still Made in America---i wish more were. & even IF i had the money to buy custom knives, is there any that are $1900 better than a BK&T ? Really ? really ? I think until they actually come out with the Geico "pen, that is mightier than the sword", i'll save my money to spend on my production knives, or at least until i find a custom that i love at what i consider a reasonable price.
 
Let me clarify, what my original rant was about.

If you are buying a knife as art, it is absolutely worth whatever it is worth.

If you are buying a knife as a working piece of art, then also what ever your willing to pay is on you.

I was more referring to knife makers who I have seen make a "Custom" knife, not custom to my specs or yours, but custom because it was hand made, and post it for sale for 1800 dollars.

This is not a rag post on guys who do custom work at all.
I think if you go to a knife maker and say this is what I want, what will it cost? Then its between you and the guy making you the knife.

My issue is some production knives and some "Custom" production knives/axes/tools that are not crusted in jewels or precious metals, that cost a small fortune.

I did say in my earlier post that I completely understand the value of better materials and experience as a knife designer/maker, and the time it takes to make said tool.

I had not taken into consideration the cost of the cutting implements that actually cut or grind a knife, weather it be by hand or by cad, but my comment about cad designed and machine cut was more a reference to the fact that its capable of mass production, and while it may be "designed by a pro" its being cranked out by machines.
It just seems to me that is drastically different than "Hand Made" Simply grinding the edge on something that's been computer cut shouldn't warrant custom prices imho.

Don't get me wrong, a good knife maker is an artist, and you pay for art.
It just seems that some of the prices take on a life of their own, far beyond what the time labor and even the skill and materials seems to justify.

I know that 2000 dollars to one person might be like 20 to someone else, but for a user, at some point doesn't the difference between an 1800 dollar knife and a 300 dollar knife become academic ?

I am ok with being wrong, and I am very willing to listen to other sides here, its just confusing to me that I can see an amazingly well designed and crafted knife sell for 200-400 bucks and something that doesn't look to be any better a knife, or any more a piece of art, sell for 1200-1800 bucks.

If I was a rich man I might not have even thought twice about it ..lol but I am a single income provider for my family so the gap seemed glaring to me.

I am normally a buy quality now or regret it later kind of guy, and that's one of the reasons that I made this post, I was wondering," Is an 1800 dollar knife that much better ? Is it worth buying a 800 dollar camp axe when I can get a 50 dollar Estwing ?"

The reason I want to know, is because if its really worth the investment for a user not a collector then I will save and get the better gear, but if its purely a preference thing then I would rather get the equal or close quality gear that costs less.

Thanks for the input so far guys, I really do appreciate the experience and perspectives.

Silverthorn
 
DerekH said:
I don't think I have even seen a $2,000 knife before. Even online. I suppose there are some that are covered in crystals and diamonds and weird stuff, in which case the materials would make up the cost. Materials can cost a lot. Crazy old mammoth tooth/bone/boogers coupled with gold and silver and rubies and such, and then toss some hardcore engraving on top of it, that would jack the price up pretty good I would think. Anyone got a link to a $2,000 knife? I would like to see one.
Click to expand...

http://www.knifeart.com/williamhenry.html

check out the last one...3500 bucks

and the second one here is pretty close to 2k ;)

call me a fool but i would like to own one of henry's knives.
 
The price of anything is exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. If someone charges $2000 for a knife, and nobody buys it... then thats not a $2000 knife.
 
IME price generally reflects quality and materials up to around $100 or so. Then you have to factor in the cost vs diminishing returns. More money will get you a nicer knife, but it won't be a huge difference. Once you get to a certain point though, the cost increases because of the demand for and reputation of the maker. If people are willing to pay the price, then I don't see anything wrong with it. It won't get you a more usable knife, just one that is worth more.
 
DerekH said:
I don't think I have even seen a $2,000 knife before. Even online. I suppose there are some that are covered in crystals and diamonds and weird stuff, in which case the materials would make up the cost. Materials can cost a lot. Crazy old mammoth tooth/bone/boogers coupled with gold and silver and rubies and such, and then toss some hardcore engraving on top of it, that would jack the price up pretty good I would think. Anyone got a link to a $2,000 knife? I would like to see one.
Click to expand...

I wonder what the value of the Hinderer XM-18 that Blade Rights is giving away is worth? I see some of his 4' knives sold for 1975.00 on Arizona Custom Knives site.

Thanks,
Jester60
BH# = NADA (yet)

We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other.
John Adams
US diplomat & politician (1735 - 1826)
 
Jester60 said:
I wonder what the value of the Hinderer XM-18 that Blade Rights is giving away is worth? I see some of his 4' knives sold for 1975.00 on Arizona Custom Knives site.
Click to expand...

I assume you mean Knife Rights. ;) The value of that knife was given conservatively at $3,400. I understand the winner has been offered more than that if he wanted to sell it.
 
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