Custom maker prices

Some prices are insane, and outlandish... and yes there are those out there that will buy a $4K knife just to say they have........

some knife prices can easily be justified if you consider the time it took to make that knife.. and the material costs involved..

most my scales I use on my bushcrafter cost $40+ just for the spalted burl.. then add $40+ for a custom tooled leather sheath..

your at $80-$100 already and you haven't even bought the knife...:eek:

now figure $60-$75 for the knife and ALL THAT WORK !!!

you're at $140-$175, which is a realistic price.. but that also varies pending scales used.. I've seen customs go for $500 that I wished I'd bought:) worth every penny..

take Becker you spend $60 knife/stock sheath, then you buy another custom sheath $40-$60

you're at $120 already.. for a knife everyone has......

customs are just that custom... some people prefer only custom over production, and to each their own..

Becker is the only production fixed blade's I currently own, well that and maybe a couple esee's, but I'm going to off them also.. :)

I sold all my customs..
 
Some time back, a rift was created in the knife world, when a blade ceased to be a tool, and became art. Once that was established, the knife community was never the same again. Inexpensive production, or high dollar custom, to me, they are just knives. I can appreciate the beauty, and effort it took to bring a steel work of art to life. I appreciate getting a damn good knife that will outlast my children's children for less that $75. Its all in the mind of the hand that holds it.

I have seen and held a 4K knife. I think it is one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen or held. I would never, never baton that through a stump.:D

In the hand or on the wall, when you get right down to it, its a knife, a sharpened hunk of steel that, at has a function, whether that function be "hangin' on the wall" or cutting up wood in the swamp, it still has a purpose.

To answer the OP, no, I don't think that a 2K custom does a better job than any BKT knife when it comes to doing knife stuff. You may have to sharpen it more often, but hell, that just means your using it.

Moose
 
Love you guys ..lol

Just want to be sure that none of our custom maker friends took offense because I don't think any of our guys had anything that I saw that I would have referred too.

I am in awe of the skill it takes to make some of the things that I have see you guys and others make.

I just needed an answer to my question, and I got answers and more so thanks guys!

Trust me if I was loaded there are some pricey knives that I would buy just to have For now though I am sticking with the great production knives that I have heard and seen everyone talk about and use, and the ones that I like.. Ok ok Maybe some customs from some of our fine Becker heads, and Blade forums too..since I know they wont take me to the cleaners.

I am a skilled laborer and always been good with my hands, but the mods you guys do and the knives some of you have made make me wish for more hours in the day so I could take it all up too.

Maybe some day when I get to a high enough level in my field I can knife craft while I am "working" from home ..lol
 
SOG KIKU Dagger is listed msrp $3625 on knifecenter... I would LOVE to baton that through a stump.
 
Bladite said:
a simple question is: what is your time worth?

$10/hr? $25/hr? $50/hr? $100/hr?

what would ANY machinist worth their salt charge you for a one off custom part made from exotic steel?

and you probably want a sheath with that too ;)

if a knife maker takes less than 8 hours to make you a knife, and charges MERELY $50/hr to make that knife, that's $400 right? how long does it take to make a custom knife?

find out what your local car mechanic's hourly rate is. probably around $75 (and that's low in my area, try $90 most places), and all they are typically doing is bolting stuff on at best. they aren't typically making custom parts. oil changes? swapping in a timing belt? ASE training? okay, sure, but it's NOT rocket science.

as well, you probably want a frakking warranty as well.

now how much should a custom knife maker charge? yeah, that's what i thought. a one off, custom piece, designed to YOUR specs? you will get down on your KNEES and pray ;)

and it's really hard to compare to a knife brand like KaBar... they're spent countless $$$$$ up front to design everything, and hope to sell enough to make a profit.

a living wage... that's the ticket. course, it's not up to us to define what that means for the maker.

profit? bonus. seriously, if someone is stupid enough, i mean, saavvyy enough to buy a knife i made at $2000, gosh :) i'm all for it.
Click to expand...

Well said.
Me, being a Knifemaker/Customizer and an Automotive Service Technician (Modern day Mechanic) I think paying a high class Knifemaker should be much more than the 75$ an hour any mechanic can charge you.
I fabricate titanium parts on occasion, and that is not easily done. Harder than swapping in a timing belt.
 
Try hand-sanding a piece of ground steel to a mirror finish with no errant marks sometime...

I wouldn't pay $2k for a knife, but I certainly realized the following now having some experience:
It takes me probably 8 hours to make a knife (effort, not elapsed).
I could probably charge $50-$100/hr as a software consultant depending on locale (I haven't been freelance in years). Similar to the master mechanic, plumber, etc..
That's a big opportunity cost, if I were doing it for money.
And lemme tell you, there's no way you'd pay $400 for my knife work as essentially a novice.
For the same 8 hours a master bladesmith can make you something near perfect, and their work IS worth that hourly rate.
The trouble with true artistry is that it takes 90% of the time to make something functional and decent, and it take the OTHER 90% to make it good enough to meet the standards of a master. (that's called the 90/90 rule....)

All that said, you can get some FABULOUS knives for under $300, and really frickin' nice ones for under $200!
And there are nearly unlimited excellent production folders for under $75.

As in everything, knifemaking follows the law of diminishing marginal returns. Each additional 1% of improvement costs more than the previous 1%.

-Daizee
 
Seems to me, How much I'd pay is real relative to how much disposable income I've got. I totally could see myself paying thousands for these things if I could afford to, because I could. If you were real wealthy your brain would think differently about, probably everything, including how much things cost. I'm fairly broke minded right now so my number is $300 ish being the most I would pay for my beloved Blind Horse ScaatyCrafter with file work and serial number with tiger maple handles..........drool.

what was the question again?
 
Apples to apples guys, apples to apples.

People keep saying what do you pay a mechanic to work on your car.
That really doesn't apply does it ?
My uncle owns a ford dealership and is a managing partner in 2 more, so you cant tell me that mechanics get 75 dollars an hour.. they don't. At least the majority of them do not.
You pay a dealership 75 dollars an hour for THEIR mechanic, their facility, their tools and equipment, insurance, money spent training their mechanic and all the other things that are overhead for a dealership/shop.
Its exactly the same with the plumber or air conditioner repair man that you call, you pay 80 bucks an hour, hes getting 30 bucks an hour.
(I know because I do this kind of work)

I am not saying that a custom guy doesn't have over head, but if you know one that has a shop the size of a dealership and millions in tools and equipment..... well then that guy is a monster.

I definitely get the point about time spent and cost for a master, but lets keep it real, most mechanics get 35, 45 bucks an hour, unless they work for Bugatti or Rolls' Royce.

I agree that most mechanics are also not doing the same thing as a knife crafter, but I am saying lets keep the benchmark a little truer.

A master also can do the same work as an amateur, or a journeyman, in significantly less time because they are experienced, and while some things cannot be done faster because they require a certain amount of time to do, other things can be done quicker based on skill/practice.

I am not saying that a pro should not be paid, and like I said earlier, I cant do what a lot of you can do, at least not yet..lol, so I DO have a great deal of respect for the training, practice, and time (and materials)that it has taken to get to the skill levels that even amateurs have.

My original question has been answered though, and I have been enlightened in other ways too, so thank you all for continuing to post.

Silverthorn
 
I know some independent mechanics who DO get $80/hr, but the point is well made regarding what is considered a fungible role in the market, for better or worse. I bet almost anyone would rather pay the garage's $75/hr to an individual mechanic they KNEW was great instead of a dealership with random people cycling through the service dept. due to the dealer's inability to retain talent.

It's not merely a question of a master being faster - the work is better, even for what is nominally an identical product. The work will be more even, the polish better, the grinds more precise, the shaping more sophisticated, the heat treatment more reliable from piece to piece, etc.

Ultimately materials are only a modest part of the cost, tho the ability to get the most out of specific materials certainly is worth paying for, if that's what you want.

Regardless, it IS an interesting question, and I agree with OF, personal value is certainly influenced by disposable income as well. Will a given $2k knife *out-perform* a given $150 knife? eh.

-Daizee
 
Have you ever made a custom knife? Alot more work and time and skill goes into it then you would think. Nothing compares to building a knife, except for building a knife. Untill youve spent the hours hand sanding and finishing you arent qualified to make any judgement on what a maker charges. I see people say, Its just a knife....A sharp piece of metal. Well, if it was just a knife, this community wouldnt be here, and you wouldnt be involved with it. A craftsman puts a ton of himself into his product. They arent just a knife. Well, PRODUCTION knives are. They lack the soul and attention to detail that a custom brings. If you dont believe me, strip a Becker or Busse and check out the attention to detail finishing the grinds. You pay more for these things to be done right. There isnt a huge or even big market of 1000 dollar plus custom blades. They are about 95% in the 200-300 dollar range. Are those too much money in your opinion too? Just curious to what you think is acceptable, and not acceptable. I laugh when people scoff at spending 300 bucks on a knife, but drive a 35000.00 truck they pay 500.00 a month for. While watching tv that costs 100+ a month on a huge 1000.00 flat panel tv. Then they wanna act high and mighty cause their blades and gear are on the cheap, and just as good(so they say)...I just think its pretty disrespectfull to be critical of a makers prices when you have no time in with the blade, have no idea how much went into the work, and have never made a knife. Its been my experiance on these forums in the past years that people like to trash whatever they dont like or understand, or cant afford. Just because you are happy with your sub 100.00 mass produced knife, doesnt mean its the same as a handmade custom from a good friend. Just as that custom will not make you a good woodsman, it sure does help when they are made by the hands of someone who knows what a good blade will do in the woods, takes pride in his name, and not some 9-5 grinder boy with a hangover from the night before, just watching the clock till its time to go home. Or worse yet a foriegn guy making next to nothing to slave away at a grinder.
 
j williams said:
Have you ever made a custom knife? Alot more work and time and skill goes into it then you would think. Nothing compares to building a knife, except for building a knife. Untill youve spent the hours hand sanding and finishing you arent qualified to make any judgement on what a maker charges. I see people say, Its just a knife....A sharp piece of metal. Well, if it was just a knife, this community wouldnt be here, and you wouldnt be involved with it. A craftsman puts a ton of himself into his product. They arent just a knife. Well, PRODUCTION knives are. They lack the soul and attention to detail that a custom brings. If you dont believe me, strip a Becker or Busse and check out the attention to detail finishing the grinds. You pay more for these things to be done right. There isnt a huge or even big market of 1000 dollar plus custom blades. They are about 95% in the 200-300 dollar range. Are those too much money in your opinion too? Just curious to what you think is acceptable, and not acceptable. I laugh when people scoff at spending 300 bucks on a knife, but drive a 35000.00 truck they pay 500.00 a month for. While watching tv that costs 100+ a month on a huge 1000.00 flat panel tv. Then they wanna act high and mighty cause their blades and gear are on the cheap, and just as good(so they say)...I just think its pretty disrespectfull to be critical of a makers prices when you have no time in with the blade, have no idea how much went into the work, and have never made a knife. Its been my experiance on these forums in the past years that people like to trash whatever they dont like or understand, or cant afford. Just because you are happy with your sub 100.00 mass produced knife, doesnt mean its the same as a handmade custom from a good friend. Just as that custom will not make you a good woodsman, it sure does help when they are made by the hands of someone who knows what a good blade will do in the woods, takes pride in his name, and not some 9-5 grinder boy with a hangover from the night before, just watching the clock till its time to go home. Or worse yet a foriegn guy making next to nothing to slave away at a grinder.
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This, I gained a new appreciation for the knife maker after making a couple of my own. I musta spent 20 hours on my first one and it was only a copy of a butcher knife. It looked like a fifth grader made it. I was proud of it but it wasn't sellable. I definitely learned more about some steels and the details and functions of certain parts of a blade.

I definitely can see how knives get to be $400 and up now prety easy.
 
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I think price, is what you will pay for a product.
Reputation/Demand/Quality of material.
 
j williams said:
Have you ever made a custom knife? Alot more work and time and skill goes into it then you would think. Nothing compares to building a knife, except for building a knife. Untill youve spent the hours hand sanding and finishing you arent qualified to make any judgement on what a maker charges. I see people say, Its just a knife....A sharp piece of metal. Well, if it was just a knife, this community wouldnt be here, and you wouldnt be involved with it. A craftsman puts a ton of himself into his product. They arent just a knife. Well, PRODUCTION knives are. They lack the soul and attention to detail that a custom brings. If you dont believe me, strip a Becker or Busse and check out the attention to detail finishing the grinds. You pay more for these things to be done right. There isnt a huge or even big market of 1000 dollar plus custom blades. They are about 95% in the 200-300 dollar range. Are those too much money in your opinion too? Just curious to what you think is acceptable, and not acceptable. I laugh when people scoff at spending 300 bucks on a knife, but drive a 35000.00 truck they pay 500.00 a month for. While watching tv that costs 100+ a month on a huge 1000.00 flat panel tv. Then they wanna act high and mighty cause their blades and gear are on the cheap, and just as good(so they say)...I just think its pretty disrespectfull to be critical of a makers prices when you have no time in with the blade, have no idea how much went into the work, and have never made a knife. Its been my experiance on these forums in the past years that people like to trash whatever they dont like or understand, or cant afford. Just because you are happy with your sub 100.00 mass produced knife, doesnt mean its the same as a handmade custom from a good friend. Just as that custom will not make you a good woodsman, it sure does help when they are made by the hands of someone who knows what a good blade will do in the woods, takes pride in his name, and not some 9-5 grinder boy with a hangover from the night before, just watching the clock till its time to go home. Or worse yet a foriegn guy making next to nothing to slave away at a grinder.
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I've made a few, a couple I still have, some I gave away. So, I understand what you're saying, J. I have some customs, but nothing near the price range of $1K or better, all of mine are less than $300, and a couple of them don't get used. Because they do nothing that a production knife can't do. Plus, if I break or damage a sub $75 knife, I can afford to replace it and they are usually in stock, somewhere, so, replacement time is low.

I don't think anyone here is bagging on custom prices, I know I'm not, remember, I made a few myself, and they weren't anywhere near what I would call "sellable", just functional. I still stand by the idea that they are sharpened metal, nothing more. When you add in all the time, effort and skill it takes to make a mirrored finshished, mammoth toothed, gem encrusted piece of art, it still a knife at its core.

The OP wanted to know if there was anything that a high end custom made knife can do, that a $75 knife won't, IMO, there isn't. As long as you are looking at it from a user knife perspective. I stand by that. My $250+ FBF won't do anything that my BK10 won't do, and vice versa. I do love my FBF but most of them don't get used, because I can't afford to piss away $250+ dollars when I break a knife, or bend it, or lose it. Just me, and I make my choices. I don't drive expensive cars, I don't spend money on tv's (yeah, I do have a bigass TV, but I work for a media company :D), but most of my money goes to kids, my house, and our bellies. My knives come from money I generate through other means, so, I'm picky about where my money goes. I want something inexpensive, well made, and functional. Not everyone is like that, but I am.

Moose
 
Price is subjective.

If you find something that strikes you, fills you full of emotion and becomes a desire to have just because of how it makes you feel, you will spend the money. Knives are like that. Just like motorcycles and cars, vacation homes, jewerly, etc...

Get over "I can't believe he charges $xxxx for that knife!'. It is that makers expression and charges what he feels. You, as a non buying individual of $2000+ custom knives has no business criticizing others asking prices.
 
going by hourly rate really means nothing when it comes to a knife. Either the knife comes out perfectly, someone buys it for $2000...and thats what its worth. Or the knife comes out sub-par, doesn't sell for the expected price...and it's not worth what was asked of it. If someone takes three months to build a nice knife, and someone else takes three weeks to build an amazing knife, I'm not paying more for the "nice" one because it took longer. The end result is the end result, and it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Knives are not cars, you're not doing the exact same job as the mechanic down the road, therefore you should be paid the same. Knives are works of art, and there are alot of artists out there, who commit alot of time and energy to their work, only to go bankrupt. And there are artists out there that splash paint across a canvas, are finished in 15 seconds, and go on to sell their work for millions... I dunno, I think knifemakers are more like artists than mechanics...
 
You are right Moose....The knife in the hands has nothing to do with what it can do. Thats all skillz. Obtained through dirt time. A Battle Mistress can out carve a Mora in the right hands. :thumbup:

Ive owned a ton of knives from makers and companies. Helped out and watched several makers do their thing, and I see a huge differance in custom work vs. production. They are finished better, better materials, and you can really tweak specs to make it your own. Plus if you break it, you get it replaced. (with the makers I deal with) That doesnt neccisarily mean bottom of the list. Most makers I know will put their warranty work to the top of the list so wait time is low. Thats a non issue for me, cause Ive never broken a knife, and I ride em hard. :D I dont get how someone breaks a knife anyways, Ive done some really stupid stuff to my knives, even my customs(no safe queens here), and they come out unscathed....Thats another topic though...hahaha Stay on track Jake...:D

I dont care what kind of knife people choose. I do like admiring the knives used by my mentors and other respected outdoorsman, but in the end its personal choice and budget that dictates....No amount of money spent on steel will make you a better outdoorsman. A 5.00 knife or a 5,000.00 one. My thing is hearing this topic on many threads and meets over the years is when guys HATE spending money on a knife, but will carry a 1000.00 with optics rifle to hunt with. When ya drop that deer, your knife does more work then that gun. The same job that a 120.00 used single shot rifle couldve done. Then they drive the big ol expensive trucks, yappin on their Iphone, and somehow 300.00 is waaaaaay too much dough for a knife. Same for ARs. 3000 bucks for a gun that is decked out in the same stuff navy seals and recon marines use in war, that is probably gonna sit in a closet most of the time only to be brought out for training a few times a week, hoping to relive some Rambo zombie fantasy I think. Then the same guys are usually the first to put down spending any big money on a knife...Another thing I think about is that a 75.00 Becker might be a 900.00 Busse to some guys. They might scoff at the beckers for being overpriced and state that a Mora or Gerber will do the same thing. When does it stop that all are created equal? The same goes with axes. Guys will admit the axe is king of tools, then slap on a 300.00 knife and grab their 20.00 china axe to hit the woods with.

Im not meaning to come across as a snob, and im certainly not saying that expensive gear is the only way to go. I just think custom knives offer something that production doesnt. Better materials, more even HT, and usually if you buy from a maker, you have a friend by the time the deal is done. I cant say a knife is just a knife. To me its so much more. Its a vehicle to explore the outdoors, and bring guys together with common interests, online and off. With all of the really great friends ive made and all of the really cool skillz Ive learned through my knife adventures, I just cant say it is just a knife.....to me anyways.
 
I can tell that some people clearly have not read my posts all the way through.

I did NOT intend this thread to be a flame fest, and I have said in numerous postings in this thread, that I have a great deal of respect for anyone who is capable of making a knife by hand or otherwise.

I said that I was more than willing to be wrong, and said that I was glad for the input that people have given even when it didn't line up with my opinion.

I also said that the initial question was that "as a tool" is the price justified by the performance alone?"
That question has been answered as has the question "Is a knife art, and can 2000 or 3000, dollars for a knife be justified?"

Clearly some people are willing to pay 1800 and up for a knife.
More power to those people.
I might feel the same if I had that kind of money to spend.

I do think though that ANYONE has the right to question something without being told that they do not have the right to comment or question.

If you don't like my questions or comments, your more than welcome to feel that way and to say so, but don't tell me what I do or don't have business talking about.
I have had the decency to not pull that crap on anyone, and I expect the same level of civility in return, thank you.

@ Daizee, point taken, I would absolutely rather pay an skilled independent mechanic, the same rate that I would pay a dealership, knowing that the money is going to him directly, and knowing that the finished product is going to be of higher quality.
I think you are correct in the way that scenario would apply to other things like knife making as well.

I do work with my hands, and I have spent hours building, repairing, or fabricating parts to make a repair, so I feel exactly what you are saying when you and others have posted about the whole, "Blood sweat and tears when into this" kind of thing.
Back in the day the best sword makers were accused of actually putting part of their souls into their masterworks. Some days in my job I have felt the same, and my job is much less artistic ..lol


@ J Williams, I am not that Cheap, I do have an understanding of what someones time and skill are worth. My comments and questions were primarily about knives over 1000 dollars and the like. I have seen quite a few knives in the 200-800 dollar range that I would actually consider if I could afford them, they seem completely worth the money as tools and art. What I am looking for right now though are tools that work like a champ and wont break the bank. Maybe someday when I have more disposable income I will buy some "Art knives"



Anyway once again thank you to ALL those posting for your view, and for being polite as well. I am a big fan of a healthy discussion with different points of view being expressed and considered.

Silverthorn
 
j williams said:
You are right Moose....The knife in the hands has nothing to do with what it can do. Thats all skillz. Obtained through dirt time. A Battle Mistress can out carve a Mora in the right hands. :thumbup:

Ive owned a ton of knives from makers and companies. Helped out and watched several makers do their thing, and I see a huge differance in custom work vs. production. They are finished better, better materials, and you can really tweak specs to make it your own. Plus if you break it, you get it replaced. (with the makers I deal with) That doesnt neccisarily mean bottom of the list. Most makers I know will put their warranty work to the top of the list so wait time is low. Thats a non issue for me, cause Ive never broken a knife, and I ride em hard. :D I dont get how someone breaks a knife anyways, Ive done some really stupid stuff to my knives, even my customs(no safe queens here), and they come out unscathed....Thats another topic though...hahaha Stay on track Jake...:D

I dont care what kind of knife people choose. I do like admiring the knives used by my mentors and other respected outdoorsman, but in the end its personal choice and budget that dictates....No amount of money spent on steel will make you a better outdoorsman. A 5.00 knife or a 5,000.00 one. My thing is hearing this topic on many threads and meets over the years is when guys HATE spending money on a knife, but will carry a 1000.00 with optics rifle to hunt with. When ya drop that deer, your knife does more work then that gun. The same job that a 120.00 used single shot rifle couldve done. Then they drive the big ol expensive trucks, yappin on their Iphone, and somehow 300.00 is waaaaaay too much dough for a knife. Same for ARs. 3000 bucks for a gun that is decked out in the same stuff navy seals and recon marines use in war, that is probably gonna sit in a closet most of the time only to be brought out for training a few times a week, hoping to relive some Rambo zombie fantasy I think. Then the same guys are usually the first to put down spending any big money on a knife...Another thing I think about is that a 75.00 Becker might be a 900.00 Busse to some guys. They might scoff at the beckers for being overpriced and state that a Mora or Gerber will do the same thing. When does it stop that all are created equal? The same goes with axes. Guys will admit the axe is king of tools, then slap on a 300.00 knife and grab their 20.00 china axe to hit the woods with.

Im not meaning to come across as a snob, and im certainly not saying that expensive gear is the only way to go. I just think custom knives offer something that production doesnt. Better materials, more even HT, and usually if you buy from a maker, you have a friend by the time the deal is done. I cant say a knife is just a knife. To me its so much more. Its a vehicle to explore the outdoors, and bring guys together with common interests, online and off. With all of the really great friends ive made and all of the really cool skillz Ive learned through my knife adventures, I just cant say it is just a knife.....to me anyways.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of that, brohiem. I definetly don't think that the tools make the make, or the skills.

We can all choose what we like and don't like, what we can afford, and what we want to afford, its up to each of us to make our minds up about it.

Moose
 
Oh, and just so ya'll know, this an AWESOME THREAD!!!! I'm diggin' the conversations.

Moose
 
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