Custom Order 6 Months Late...Need Advice

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enoreeriver

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Hello, early Nov 2004 I placed an order with a custom maker whose designs often become production knives. This maker only makes a limited number of the custom versions of the production knives, so I was extremely happy to be part of that limited group. The expected wait time was to be 6 Months which would have gotten my knife to me in April or May of 05. Per the maker's request, I advanced approx $300 to him. In the moths that followed a few other intriquing designs were released, so deposits were placed on those as well. As of now, it stands that the first knife is 6 months late, the 2nd knife was due to me in August and the 3rd knife isn't expected until next year. I am really mostly upset about the 1st knife not being delivered.
Just looking for some general advice. I would love to ultimately receive the knife (knives), but I don't like having $900 tied up with someone that isn't responsive to my messages and does not seem to feel a commitment to deliver on his end of the deal. The times that I have communicated with him, I am usually told "it is almost ready...should be next week". The last time I heard this was about 6 weeks ago.

Is this story common in the custom knife world? I have worked with other makers with great sucess...(Darrel Ralph for example). The work was as expected or exceeding expectations and was delivered on time. Supposing that you really wanted the knives, what would you do to maintain the relationship, but get the maker motivated to finish up. If this is not possible, are deposits usually easily refunded?
 
Unfortunately there is no way to tell without telling us who the maker is.

A very few makers you will likely never see your money or the knife. Some makers a delay of a year or 3 is not uncommon. Hopefully your maker is not delayed by that much either.
 
Run a search on him here, see if he's known for delivering the goods, but just late sometimes. I'd much rather deal with a guy who runs late than a guy who just takes money and never delivers at all. Lord knows there are a few of those out there.

Anyway, this is what TGB&U is for - feedback to the rest of us so we can avoid having the same problem. 6 months late, you should probably name the guy.
 
six months is pretty normal in knifemaker time.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Six months overdue is a bit on the long side, but certainly not exceptional. The bothersome thing is that the maker does not seem to be forthcoming with the reasons for the delay. To tell a customer that the knife will be finished in a few days, when that is not the truth, is not a way to conduct business.
 
I can order a custom tomorrow from one of my favorite makers & I will
have it in my hands in less than 3 weeks & I will send him a check after
I get it. Also, I will put his work up against anybody out there.
 
RRG said:
I can order a custom tomorrow from one of my favorite makers & I will
have it in my hands in less than 3 weeks & I will send him a check after
I get it. Also, I will put his work up against anybody out there.
Click to expand...

a. How nice for you. Is he a full-time maker? It makes a difference

b. That is a bold statement, and it forces me to shut you down right there. How long have you been collecting knives? Who else do you have in your collection? How many custom knives have you seen in person? By whom?

You are going to put your maker up against Moran or Fisk on the forged side, Walker, Lake, Herron, or Loveless on the stock removal side?

I really don't think that you know what you are talking about.

Care to rephrase what you wrote?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
My guess would be that the maker RRG is referring to is Wayne Whittaker, as I remember a recent post RRG made about this maker producing 50 or so knives for him in the last year.
 
Kohaii99---I had about a thousand word reply to your attack on me that
I was about to post prior to taking my Wife out for a bite to eat on our
1st Anniversary. I've decided to condense it.
First off my intent was to let people who don't all ready know that not
all Custom Makers require payment up front or even a deposit. In the past
18 months or so I have purchased 263 Customs from about 15 Knifemaker Guild Members(full time I might add). This may very well be a small amount in
comparison to what you have bought.
As to how many customs have I seen, I'm sorry that is nothing I keep a record of. As to how long have I been collecting knives? I still have the
Hopalong Cassidy knife I was given when I was 5 or 6 years old so I guess
you might say 55 or 56 years.
I think I was given some pretty good advice when I joined this forum & that
was----Don't get into a p-ssing match with those guys because some of them have nothing better to do & they love to argue.
So Kohai99 this thread is not about you or me & this will be my last
post here regardless of whatelse you might have to say.
Keith you are correct I do like Wayne Whittakers work but the bulk of
the Customs I have purchased have come from other makers who most here have heard of. They all have good communication & don't require pyt.
up front.
 
I consider Kohai and RRG my friends, done business with each of you gentlemen. Great points by both of you, I know Bob has a massive collection and Steven has some knives I have drooled over.

Let's please not get into an argument. Bob, don't take what Steven said as offensive or personal, I don't think that was his intention. He just says what's on his mind.
 
Having some experience with custom pistols, I can say that six months late is not at all unusual, but:

(1) It depends on the original estimate. Six months late on a two-week turnaround is different from six months late on a two-year turnaround. The OP's original estimate was six months total; a doubling of the time can be annoying but is not very unusual.

(2) The whole "it's almost ready... will be next week... got lost in the mail..." stuff is crap. When a good custom maker is going to get you something late, they will tell you "sorry--it's gonna be x months later than originally planned."
 
BladeGoblin said:
I consider Kohai and RRG my friends, done business with each of you gentlemen. Great points by both of you, I know Bob has a massive collection and Steven has some knives I have drooled over.

Let's please not get into an argument. Bob, don't take what Steven said as offensive or personal, I don't think that was his intention. He just says what's on his mind.
Click to expand...

I don't have a "massive" collection.

It is just about right. :D

I was not attacking RRG, but his " I can get it in three weeks" thing irritated me. I have a knife on order from Kevin Cashen, that if I am lucky, will make it here in 1997. It is about who you are getting from that makes that difference.

Shmackey's post about things being relative is dead on. Even so, I have makers that were supposed to deliver in June, just deliver, here in October. This is on an order placed in April.

Never, never pay in full up front. The maker has no reason to finish the work if they already got paid.

Deposits are reasonable, especially for special materials. 10% is fair, buyer beware. Custom knife collecting can be a full contact sport.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
its not uncommon to wait several yrs for some makers knives (ie emerson 6-8 yrs ) so 6 months to 1 yr isnt too bad, depends on the maker.

from what ya say i would be starting to get antsy also, no communication isnt a good sign.

FWIW NEVER pay for ANY knife in full until its ready for delivery, a small deposit (~10%) is acceptable if ya want expensive options on the custom knife (ie devin thomas damacus, ivory, gold, etc) but thats it.

also FWIW i have several customs and have done biz with a lot of makers and have never had one ask me for a deposit or anything else, much less prepayment, also the vast majority of them are stand up guys who would sooner cut off there finger vs rip ya off. unfortunatly imho it seems that the number of bad makers is rising the last few yrs, or maybe we are just hearing about them now, not saying that the guy ya are dealing with is one of the bad ones.

hope it works out for ya.......
 
A number of knifemakers are not too good at estimating time. A number of collectors and customers that I meet are incredible perfectionsists, and expect that any knife that they pay a premium price for should be ABSOLUTELY PERFECT in every detail. We can get away with this because these knifemakers demand the same thing from themselves. And feces happens, sometimes the fit and finish might not be perfect, or the ivory might crack, or the heat treat wasn't perfect. (The latter actually happened--the maker called me and told me that things would take a little longer). I would rather have THE perfect knife than one that has that minor flaw. So it'll take some more time. A couple of phone calls is all it takes to make me happy, and I am the LEAST patient person I know.
 
RRG said:
I can order a custom tomorrow from one of my favorite makers & I will
have it in my hands in less than 3 weeks & I will send him a check after
I get it. Also, I will put his work up against anybody out there.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there are many friendly and communicative knife makers out there who make knives without deposits. I don't trust people who require deposits. I've been burned before. But then, I'm not at the high end cost wise, maybe enoreeriver is and this is normal behavior for these makers.
 
Years ago, I asked Loveless why he was not taking deposits given the long completion times he was quoting. Didn't people back out when "their" knife was ready several years later? "Sure," he said, "people's situations change, but someone will buy it -- at a higher price than the one I originally quoted."
 
enoreeriver, I am in a similar predicament with a knifemaker. Well , not really now that I think about it. I placed an order for two knives and was told that it would be 12-18 months. At the 12 month mark I requested on my own accord to mail in payment in full as I had it at the time and was afraid if I spent it that I would have a hard time raising those funds once more.

My request was granted and I mailed a US postal money order that same week. This was at the 12 month mark when I sent payment. The 18 months mark passed a couple months ago with no word on the two knives ordered. The only part that really upsets me is my recent attempts to contact this maker via e-mail have went unanswered.

This person is up there in the knife world so I am sure he will come through and technically he is only 2 months over his time frame. I guess I am not cut out for these long time frames and just need to stick with knife purveyors with in stock items or makers with shorter wait times.

The important thing for me is to not get too worked up over the deal or else I can't enjoy the knives when they DO come.
 
Thanks to all that responded. I have received quite a variety of responses. I am glad to hear that so many of you are having good experiences, but it sounds like a few of you are facing the same issues I am. I really don't want to post the maker's name here at this time because I have not really let him know the extent of my frustration and given him an opportunity to respond (it would help if he would return my phone calls). However, I will soon be requesting a refund, and if that does not happen, you better beleive it will be posted here then.

Good luck to all!
 
I would ask for my money back.

This kind of behavior should'nt be tolerated at all.
He could at the very least give you some reason for the delay.

And how can someone be so off in their predictions that "next week" becomes six months?!

I cannot believe the audacity of the guy to not even contact you after he has your money.

Let us know who he is.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
I think some of these custom knifemakers could really benefit from more structured business processes. And I understand how small business work, so don't tell me that they can't afford it. More schedule control, a more change management when things don't go as planned, more responsiveness to customers to know the status. No way can most companies stay in business for long by promising a service/product by a deadline and not delivering until months later - I don't care how good they are. Even if they are that good, a bit more structure would make them better.
 
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