customs which offer performance superior to productions

[Cliff Stamp]

Which custom knives offer superior performance to the better production knives such as :

1) pure efficient cutting on a folding knife - Opinel, Fallkniven U2, various Spyderco's

2) heavy cutting / utility, solid lock, ergonomics on a folder - various Spyderco's

3) pure efficient cutters on a fixed blade - Mora, Deerhunter, etc. .

4) heavy utility - Swamp Rat, Busse

5) wood craft - Mora 2000, Gransfors Bruks axes, Martindale machetes

As a couple of example of what I am talking about :

Alvin Johnson customs, high hollow grinds, ultra hard and wear resistant steels, very thin and axe edges. These make the Deerhunter look like a prybar.

Phil Wilson utility/hunting knives, very efficient edge geometry, high flat grinds, and extremely hard and wear resistant steels such as CPM-10V at 65 HRC, S90V at 63 HRC, etc. .

Ray Kirk bowies, large knives for wood craft, combine the cutting ability of a Mora, the chopping ability of a GB axe with similar handling to a decent machete for light brush all in the one package.

-Cliff

 

[averageguy]

Cliff, that would be a first. Are you actually suggesting there is something superior to a Busse knife - the best looking axes ever made?

 

[SIFU1A]

imho nothing is sharper than the emerson zero bevel grind, nothing, a zero bevel grind CQC8 is a slicer for sure.

 

[WadeF]

imho nothing is sharper than the emerson zero bevel grind, nothing, a zero bevel grind CQC8 is a slicer for sure.

Have a link to one of these? I've heard of zero bevel grind blades, but rarely see them, especially on production knives.

 

[brownshoe]

I think Bob Terzuola makes "heavy duty" folder (ACTF?) that rocks out all production versions. This includes the sebenza. As a framelock its a simplistic brute, with mastadon ivory and damascas bolsters it's Madison Avenue pig sticker.

There are a host of custom slipjoint makers that have products that both out perform and are prettier than anything made by a factory.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I think Bob Terzuola makes "heavy duty" folder (ACTF?) that rocks out all production versions.

I am looking for direct comparisons here, for durability work done which the manufacturer will support, similar for edge retention.

I have seen a lot of high end folders which I assume are probably really well done, but there is little if any discussion of actual use.

Cutting ability and other similar aspects are so geometry influenced that spec's are enough to make an arguement usually.

nothing is sharper than the emerson zero bevel grind...

You can find the same grind on a $10 Mora, and an Opinel will outcut an Emerson readily.

-Cliff

 

[smitty]

I have a Mayo TNT that has been my everyday knife for about three years. The talonite blade keeps a good edge and cuts like a dream. I receantly moved into a new house and my TNT performed all the cutting chores cardboard,rope,carpet and everything else. When I was done the blade would still shave. I know talonite is a softer steel but I'm not going to pry a door open with it or chop concrete blocks so I think I'll be O-kay. It's also been through the washing machine twice with no rust or harm.

 

[db]

There is more to the cutting ability to a knife than just a thin blade ground down to nothing. Balance handle comfort, and weight are just a few to name. The whole knife as a package needs to be concidered. Try a RJ Martin, or a Murray Carter. I even have a Carson small M4 that cuts at least as good and in some cases better than an Opinel.

 

[sharpstick]

"You can find the same grind on a $10 Mora, and an Opinel will outcut an Emerson readily."

-Cliff


Here we go again... You don't really believe that do you?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

There is more to the cutting ability to a knife than just a thin blade ground down to nothing. Balance handle comfort, and weight are just a few to name.

By cutting ability I mean the amount of force needed for the blade to pass through a media, this is also pure blade geometry, but if you think of it in terms of how much is cut under a given user effort, it will be effected by other aspects besides blade geometry for various applications which is why I included the qualifier "usually" in the above statement.

In reflection, those two definations while sounding similar are very different, it may be better to call the first blade efficiency or similar.

Balance and weight are indeed influences towards dynamic cutting as they effect the maximum momentum of the blade, lots of blades will cut very well in general but chop poorly as they are too light to allow significant impact energies.

Handle comfort or lack thereof can also effect cutting ability in extended use, for example the Buck/Strider I recently used was so uncomfortable that I would readily pick a blade with lower cutting ability for extended work as the Solution would quickly degrade in performance due to ergonomic issues preventing the application of heavy effort.

A lot of these are user specific though and hard to argue in general. If you use khukuris significantly for example, bowies that most will judge as slow and heavy will seem feather light in the hand to you. Lots of people also like the boxy Strider grips. I am looking towards more general performance issues, though individual preferences are of course of interest as well.

You don't really believe that do you?

If you take this knife :

http://static.zoovy.com/img/888knivesrus/-/emerson_cqc8_bt_s1

and raise the grind all the way to the spine, and now make the spine thinner, yes I do believe it would cut better, and yes, Mora's that are < $10 have full to the edge grinds.

-Cliff

 

[db]

I think you just said the same thing I did. To answer your oridginal question on custom vs production performance, I think the answer is yes to customs. With a custom you can get the knife made to perform the way you want it, unlike a production witch you have to take what is offered. This assumes you know what you want for performance.

 

[Saberman]

I'll try to hit each point

1) pure efficient cutting on a folding knife - Bob Lum, AT Barr, Jens Anso

2) heavy cutting / utility, solid lock, ergonomics on a folder - Peter Atwood, Kit Carson, JW Smith, Rick Hindereer, Mike Obenauf, Charles Marlowe

3) pure efficient cutters on a fixed blade - Dozier, Anso, Siska, Jerry Hossom, Ed Fowler

4) heavy utility - Jerry Hossom, Ed Fowler

5) wood craft - havn't gotten into these, but I do have a Gransfors Bruks which rocks!

Just my thoughts

 

[Cliff Stamp]

With a custom you can get the knife made to perform the way you want it...

Yes, this is what I do heavily, most people however just use the stock designs. How many custom knives are actually significantly customized?

Ok then though, aside from that, which stock customs offer superior performance to the knives I noted?

Saberman, have you actually compared the knives you listed against the ones I noted and seen superior performance?

-Cliff

 

[SIFU1A]

I am looking for direct comparisons here, for durability work done which the manufacturer will support, similar for edge retention.

I have seen a lot of high end folders which I assume are probably really well done, but there is little if any discussion of actual use.

Cutting ability and other similar aspects are so geometry influenced that spec's are enough to make an arguement usually.


You can find the same grind on a $10 Mora, and an Opinel will outcut an Emerson readily.

-Cliff

none that i have seen. sure ya aint thinking about chisel grind lol. i have a couple opinels and they arent anything at all comparable to my zero bevel emerson, in any way, other than they are both knives, if mora makes a ZBG knife i would think it would be very sharp too, i havent seen anything but an emerson specwar with that grind though. but anything ZBG is plenty sharp. hard to sharpen and not scuff the thing up, but plenty sharp nonetheless.

 

[Boink]

Falkniven U2 is a very attactive knife. What are the attributes that make it a great cutter? I also wonder what the status is of the company, which the owner is looking to sell due to personal illness.

 

[db]

Ok then though, aside from that, which stock customs offer superior performance to the knives I noted?
-Cliff

I wouldn't know. Stock custom? I'd think a custom knife is what ever you want. I'm not going to turn this thread into what a custom is. Do we also want to compare stock production? I'd say that would also mean no sharpening, IE as it comes from the producer. If so all the Opinel's I have gotten are pretty dull and are out performed by many knives custom and other production. Disregaurding all of that like I said in my first post my Carson Small M4 out cuts, and performs in every way, even a sharpened Opinel. Is it a stock small M4? Kit knows what I wanted and Made the M4 the way I wanted. He didn't charge any more for it so I assume that would qualify as a stock M4. Also my Murray Carter for a fixed blade out performs my Mora and AG bird and trout, the smaller Deerhunter.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Stock custom? I'd think a custom knife is what ever you want.

Yeah so do I, however most buy standard models, so it would be of interest to compare the standard custom models to decent production blades.

If so all the Opinel's I have gotten are pretty dull ...

Yeah, Mora's tend to be this way too.

my Carson Small M4 out cuts, and performs in every way, even a sharpened Opinel.

How much does it out cut it, how much easier is it to push through material, or how much more does it cut with a given load?

What are the geometry specs, blade stock, primary grind and edge thickness and angle?

A fully sharpened Opinel has a full convex grind on thin stock, it sets a pretty high benchmark for cutting performance.

It has issues with handle security, ease of one handed operation, etc. of course.

Also my Murray Carter for a fixed blade out performs my Mora and AG bird and trout, the smaller Deerhunter.

Out performs it in what way, and what are its geometry specs, blade stock, primary grind and edge thickness and angle?

if mora makes a ZBG knife i would think it would be very sharp too

Most puukko's are this way, even the cheap ones you can buy for ~$5. The initial sharpness can be hit or miss though. If you push up in price you can get fairly consistent sharpness.

Falkniven U2 is a very attactive knife. What are the attributes that make it a great cutter?

Blade stock is 0.095", full flat grind which tapers to a fine edge ground at 0.006-0.008" on the one I had. It is also fairly narrow so is easily turned in media, makes a nice paring knife for that reason.

I also wonder what the status is of the company, which the owner is looking to sell due to personal illness.

Still undecided last I heard.

-Cliff

 

[db]

Quote:

my Carson Small M4 out cuts, and performs in every way, even a sharpened Opinel.
How much does it out cut it, how much easier is it to push through material, or how much more does it cut with a given load?"

It depends on what is being cut. I'm a user not a tester I haven't measured anything but have used both knives alot and the M4 cuts easier on most everything with less forse.

"
What are the geometry specs, blade stock, primary grind and edge thickness and angle?

It's a thin hollow grind. I don't know what the edge angle was new.
"
Also my Murray Carter for a fixed blade out performs my Mora and AG bird and trout, the smaller Deerhunter.
Out performs it in what way

It holds an edge longer and cuts materials easier.

"
and what are its geometry specs, blade stock, primary grind and edge thickness and angle?

It has a high flat grind. I don't know what the edge angle was new, I seem to think it may have been convexed a little but I'm not real sure about that.

 

[WYK]

I love it when I see people challenge the Opinels. It's not the brand that is doing the cutting, it's the geometry. A fully sharpened very thin blade with a very shallow edge profile cuts better than a fully sharpened blade that is thicker, and oftentimes regardless of the edge grind geometry - beit flat or sabre etc. The blade simply has less media to push out of the way, and produces less resistance as it passes through the media. It's pure physics.

Now if you want to discuss the various medium, then there will be certain advantages to thicker blades. If you want to cleave skulls - the Kukhri will do the better job most the time. Want a fighting knife? The Bowie is the best. Want to hack trees? Try a Rat. etc.

WYK

 

[kamkazmoto]

Fixed blade - My Murray Carter is a pure cutter
Folder - Check out a Dozier, I want one so bad my mouth waters every time i see one.

As far as "geometry specs, blade stock, primary grind and edge thickness and angle" are concerned, I don't know and I don't care as long as they continue to perform as well as they do and I can sharpen them with my water stones. I would venture to add that I think that a lot of the people here don't know or care about the answers to those questions (well, except for blade stock )