Cutting out the middle man

C

clearkevin

Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Messages
979
What are your thoughts on the numerous budget Chinese folders, I find myself asking why I would buy a Kershaw or CRKT or even budget Spyderco when I can get better quality often better materials from Chinese companies especially if I consider companies like twosun or CH rather than say bestech or kizer. I still love the US or Tiwan Spydies ZT's. I just feel like if I'm buying an overseas made knife anyway why not cut out the middle man.
 
Right now I think some of the absolute best available values are American companies using Chinese OEM. The Rat 1 and 2 in D2, the Steel Will Cutjack, Modus and Intrigue, the Byrd series from Spyderco, hell, I can get a Kershaw Injection 3.5 for $15.

There are some Chinese based competitors, for sure, and I'll happily spend some money on a Ruike or Bestech, but I'm a bit happier buying from companies based in the states for pure warranty reasons. Hard to find a Chinese based company that can, feasibly, match KAI's warranty service and CS.
 
Why don't we all just do that and have the American companies and the dealers all go out of business and then we can all just buy whatever the Chinese companies are offering directly from them? Or maybe the American companies could just pack up and move everything over to China and sell directly to us?:thumbsup:
 
I would start by asking what your definition of "budget" folder is.

I don't own a Kizer, Bestech, Ruike (out of my budget), Steel Will, Two Sun, etc knife.

I personally would rather support an American company (like Spyderco) that manufactures overseas like IM pointed out. I can find solid products from Kabar ($20 Doziers), Spyderco (Byrds), or Victorinox in the $20-40 not too mention my beloved Ontario Rat 1 in D2.

I looked long and hard at some Bestechs on Massdrop but never pulled the trigger. I do understand that the materials used in these Chinese knives look impressive, but I admittedly wonder if the claims of blade steel are accurate. If you or others want to buy direct from China, go ahead. It's your money, spend it however you want.

ps. I'm a knife user, not a collector. My goal isn't to buy ever knife produced or amass a large number of knives.
 
I should point out that I have not actually tried anything from CH or TwoSun but I like some of the designs and the price point for a ti framelock is a bit easier on the pocket book. To your points above I agree that there is much to consider especially in terms of warranty and customer support. As for my definition of budget it depends on what knife I'm looking at a stainless steel framelock or say g10 liner lock for 30-50 I consider budget. A titanium framelock anything around 100 I see as budget.
 
Who says that you have to buy everything from one or another. I own direct from China knives, Spyderco from all the factories except Italy, Steel will from both Italy and China, and ZT's all American factory
I also buy from others. On the low end it is hard to compete with Direct China. I buy China knives for a few reasons #1 If I know that I will be hard using my knife helping a friend move, it is hard to justify using a $100.00 plus knife for such work #2 If I want to see how much I like a knifes size and its carry-ability I will buy a clone to try it out but I don't carry them I usually give them away to non knife collectors as gifts. I have sold all my cheap Spyderco's CRKT etc and have concentrated $100-$500 knives.
Just for frame of reference I have bought expensive knives after getting a feel for them from the clones.
You would think that American companies would tighten their belts and become more competitive but the opposite is happening. Spyderco recently bumped their prices and I find it hard to swallow the idea of paying $42.00 for a Tenacious when I can get a Steel Will 3.5"Cutjack in D2 for $43.00.

I find it interesting that many knife users are anti China but shop at Walmart where almost everything is made in China. I have never stepped into a Walmart and that is just one of the many reasons I don't shop there. Most people wear clothes from Bangladesh, Vietnam and buy Diamond jewelry from India @ Zales and Walmart where people make the equivalent of less than $5.00 a week and live in a Shanty Shack made of rusty corrugated sheets of metal, I could go on for hours. I buy knives from American companies that do manufacture in China but I am not fooling myself into thinking that it is OK.
The American companies are giving business to the Chinese and making a secondary profit on Americans. I am sure that if the United States stopped working with China we would see a sharp rise in prices and the quality would drop as it had in the past. Recently Trump either enacted or threatened to tax foreign Aluminum and the American and Canadian companies raised their prices the next day before the change had taken place. That is what you have to look forward to if we cutout the foreign imports.
Our government decided to be a big proponent of Globalization and this is the result. Swingline stapler already had a factory built in Mexico waiting for NAFTA to be signed, when it was they were gone the next day and their building is still empty.
I do not wish to have the $10.00 - $50.00 knives in my knife collection but I will continue to use them for hard use instead of a PM2 or a ZT 0452. I also use them when I travel. If they get confiscated or lost it is no big deal.
I do not think that buying Chinese knives from an American company makes it ok and by the way how many of you own Iphones which were made in Chinese sweatshops until Apple got caught and only then did they take action to make it a safe workplace with sane hours and pay.
I am sorry to say that many things that are part of our daily life are made in 3rd world countries that don't even know what human rightsmean. We also forget that most of our borrowed money comes from China and that the health of our great country depends on the health of the Chinese economy. We did that to ourselves.
I appreciate the fact that many of us would like to buy all American and that is something that we should all strive for but please don't justify your actions to yourselves by buying from an American company that makes their stuff in China.
 
Last edited:
emjay4248 said:
Who says that you have to buy everything from one or another. I own direct from China knives, Spyderco from all the factories except Italy, Steel will from both Italy and China, and ZT's all American factory
I also buy from others. On the low end it is hard to compete with Direct China. I buy some China knives for a few reasons #1 If I know that I will be hard using my knife helping a friend move, it is hard to justify using a $100.00 plus knife for such work #2 If I want to see how much I like a knifes size and its carry-ability I will buy a clone to try it out but I don't carry them I usually give them away to non knife collectors as gifts. I have sold all my cheap Spyderco's CRKT etc and have concentrated $100-$500 knives.
Just for frame of reference I have bought expensive knives because of getting a feel for them from the clones.
You would think that American companies would tighten their belts and become more competitive but the opposite is happening. Spyderco recently bumped their prices and I find it hard to swallow the idea of paying $42.00 for a Tenacious when I can get a Steel Will 3.5"Cutjack in D2 for $43.00.
I find it interesting that many knife users are so anti China when they wear clothes from Bangladesh, Vietnam and buy Diamond jewelry from India where a diamond cutter makes the equivalent of less than $5.00 a week and lives in a Shanty Shack made of rusty corrugated sheets of metal, I could go on for hours. I buy knives from American companies that do manufacture in China but I am not fooling myself into thinking that it is OK.
The American companies are giving business to the Chinese and making a secondary profit on Americans. I am sure that if the United States stopped working with China we would see a sharp rise in prices and the quality would drop as it had in the past. Recently Trump either enacted or threatened to tax foreign Aluminum and the American and Canadian raised their prices the next day. That is what you have to look forward to if we cutout
the foreign imports.
Our government decided to be a big proponent of Globalization and this is the result. Swingline stapler already had a factory built in Mexico waiting for NAFTA to be signed, when it was they were gone the next day. I don't think that their is a car company that does use some China parts.
I do not wish to have the $10.00 - $50.00 knives in my knife collection but I will continue to use them for hard use instead of a PM2 or a ZT 0452. I think that strong competition make a company push harder to be better
But I do not think that buying Chinese knives from an American company makes it ok and by the way how many of you own Iphones which used to be made in Chinese sweatshops until Apple got caught and only then did they take action to make it a safe workplace with sane hours and pay.
I am sorry to say that many things that are part of our daily life are made in 3rd world countries that don't even know what human rights are. We also forget that most of our borrowed money comes from China and that the health of our great country depends on the health of the Chinese economy. We did that to ourselves.
I appreciate the fact that many of us would like to buy all American and that is something that we should all do but please don't justify your actions by buying from an American company that makes their stuff in China.
Click to expand...
Holy Wall of Text, Batman!
A. You're getting into politics and this isn't the place for it. Go to the political arena or shut it.
B. This is almost incomprehensible.
C. You spend paragraphs justifying your own purchase of Chinese clones, but lecture others on justifying their purchase of legitimate products from American companies?! Get that weak sauce argument the hell out of here.
 
The way I see it, the middle man is the insurance policy stating that my issues will be resolved with minimum frustration, if ant at all.
After all, this knife thing is a hobby and should be fun and enjoyable.
 
colin.p said:
See what happens when you mention China? Brings out the best in people :eek::rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Yep! And there are good reasons for that.
If someone wants to buy all of their knives directly from reputable Chinese companies, that is their prerogative. But some of us don't mind paying a little more to support the "middle man" so that they can make a decent living too, while providing us a valuable service in support of a hobby that we greatly enjoy.
 
danbot said:
Yep! And there are good reasons for that.
If someone wants to buy all of their knives directly from reputable Chinese companies, that is their prerogative. But some of us don't mind paying a little more to support the "middle man" so that they can make a decent living too, while providing us a valuable service in support of a hobby that we greatly enjoy.
Click to expand...
Good point and when it is explained like that, very civilized as well.
 
I don't know about other Chinese manufacturers but the only time I used the Reate CS Office in the states, it was pretty satisfactory.

As for budget knives (in the $20-$100 range), there are plenty of USA made (here or overseas) for me to choose from, and that's where my money will go. A bit higher end knives, I might consider Chinese made, like Reate.
 
I Prefer to buy American and it certainly will be much easier if I have a warranty issue.
I will gladly choose American over China stuff any day. It may not be huge , but it is a bit of support for American manufacturing.
 
I generally don't even look at what people consider the higher end Chinese made knives (Chinese brands). There are just too many other knives for me to worry about them and I generally don't care for metal slabs (Ti or otherwise).

My biggest concern is shifting US manufacturing capability outside the country to the point we are dependent on the country (knives or otherwise). I would prefer to see Chinese companies build factories in the US. They will when it makes economic sense to do so for them. That said, I don't have a serious issue buying Chinese or foreign made products over US made products if the quality is there (or my impression of delivered quality).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top