Cutting out the middle man

danbot said:
So it's okay to buy clones for "hard use" or to "try out" before maybe buying the real thing, but it's NOT okay to buy a knife manufactured in China by an American company?:confused:
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You missed the point. It is OK to buy them either directly or through American companies but just don't fool yourselves into thinking that buying direct is a bad thing but buying it from CRKT is OK they are both the same and as far as I'm concerned both are alright.
 
emjay4248 said:
You missed the point. It is OK to buy them either directly or through American companies but just don't fool yourselves into thinking that buying direct is a bad thing but buying it from CRKT is OK they are both the same and as far as I'm concerned both are alright.
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The way I understood the OP, is that he wants to buy direct from Chinese manufacturers To get "more knife" for the money than he could get buying American or Chinese made knives through dealers. As far as I understand it, most manufacturers that use authorized dealers as distributors for their products do not sell direct from the factory to the public, with the exception of factory outlet stores that you have to go to in person.

ETA: It seems to me that buying direct from China with the goal of saving money on supposedly high end materials will lead to a ****load of clone offerings.
 
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Chinese companies seem to be able to deliver better product every day in the knife world. I am glad that is becoming prevalent as they learn people will pay more for quality. Also that the people who spend tons of money in this hobby want original designs and not a knock off that mimics someone else’s.

Unfortunately counterfeiting is so ingrained in the Chinese market that a company that is successful based on legit designs is often running counterfeiting out the back door. There is also a huge market for counterfeits in Europe, Russia and probably asia.

I don’t know if it is true but I heard Chinese company Samier has done work for Reate before. Well Samier also does counterfeits. With the way the companies network and subcontract it is very hard to hold a Chinese company responsible as a consumer and not purchase from them.
 
clearkevin said:
BTW I do not buy clones or even close copies I'm only considering original designs from Chinese companies
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Hey Kevin I watch your channel all the time and you have been a deciding factor for me on many of my knives including many reputable Chinese knives such as real steel and Steel Will. I have also bought many American manufactured knives on your recommendation too. I am not sure of your opinion of using cheapies as beaters or clones as tryout knives but I have bought a few clones to try out some of your recommendations and have bought most of the real ones. Keep the vids coming
 
Lapedog said:
Chinese companies seem to be able to deliver better product every day in the knife world. I am glad that is becoming prevalent as they learn people will pay more for quality. Also that the people who spend tons of money in this hobby want original designs and not a knock off that mimics someone else’s.

Unfortunately counterfeiting is so ingrained in the Chinese market that a company that is successful based on legit designs is often running counterfeiting out the back door. There is also a huge market for counterfeits in Europe, Russia and probably asia.

I don’t know if it is true but I heard Chinese company Samier has done work for Reate before. Well Samier also does counterfeits. With the way the companies network and subcontract it is very hard to hold a Chinese company responsible as a consumer and not purchase from them.
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Kevin John was the same. He made Sebenza clones that were almost as good as the real ones for $100.00, he also was contracted by American companies to make some of their higher end knives. He has now become an established designer and manufacturer of his own stuff and stopped all cloning as far as we know. in fact his knives are being cloned
 
trevitrace said:
Kevin John. :rolleyes:
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He now makes the parts that get assembled into CKF knives. Back when Strider’s folders had that terrible radiused lockface that would pretty much always start lock rocking after a little wear Kevin John was making Strider clones with locks that didn’t have that issue.

I am in no way condoning him cloning anyone I just found it kind of funny that things developed that way. There is no denying that he put out good quality stuff. Thing is that since he got his company rolling through cloning any of his original designs are funded from a company that was built on cloning. Does that mean one should not buy CKF knives because some of the funds go to Kevin John? It is really hard to draw a line sometimes and say what activity supports cloners and what doesn’t.

Even back then he had his own line of folders in his own design which were branded “Venom Knives.” I often see these Venom knives being cloned now so yes the cloner has truly become the cloned.
 
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clearkevin said:
What are your thoughts on the numerous budget Chinese folders, I find myself asking why I would buy a Kershaw or CRKT or even budget Spyderco when I can get better quality often better materials from Chinese companies especially if I consider companies like twosun or CH rather than say bestech or kizer. I still love the US or Tiwan Spydies ZT's. I just feel like if I'm buying an overseas made knife anyway why not cut out the middle man.
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I buy the quality knives. Crkt and Kershaws made in China are not quality and use low end budget steel and charge more for it VS the other companies like ruike, two sun's etc. These newer brands are using better materials and costs are around the same though they are not using designs from known makers but are original designs.

So yea... I'll buy the better of the choices available. With that said, I still don't like buying budget knives. Have a few and I like the few I have but don't make it a habit of collecting or using them on a regular basis.

When Kershaw or crkt realize it's 2018 it will be good. I think making profit is more important to them.
 
In all seriousness, most Chinese brands make it easy for me to pass. The current design flavor/aesthetic seems to be lots of Ti handles in addition to lots of colorful designs (depending on the brand). Like to me Kizer knives all look the same - Ti handles with different blades and handle textures. Minus a few collaborative designs. I also don't want green or orange or blue handles (it's what makes wanting a Norseman difficult - I hate the handles a lot of the time). Just not for me.

But I'm also not interested in bang for the buck generally (I'm just interested in the bang), or quantity, so some of the reasons people seem to be into Chinese brands don't apply to me. I don't not buy something based on where it's made, but pretty much all the brands I like make their knives in the U.S. I have a SpyderCo and a Kizer made elsewhere (neither of which get carried), everything else is made here.

But if the OP wants to buy Chinese made knives from Chinese companies, rather than Chinese made knives from American companies, great.
 
clearkevin said:
What are your thoughts on the numerous budget Chinese folders, I find myself asking why I would buy a Kershaw or CRKT or even budget Spyderco when I can get better quality often better materials from Chinese companies especially if I consider companies like twosun or CH rather than say bestech or kizer. I still love the US or Tiwan Spydies ZT's. I just feel like if I'm buying an overseas made knife anyway why not cut out the middle man.
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I've had two knives from this category and both developed lock rock pretty quickly. One held an edge like it was d2, the other like it was forged from paper clips.

I'm sure theres some great bargains to be had and some of the more major Chinese brands like Kizer or Real Steel are probably pretty safe, but my experience with them has been too inconsistent to continue down that path. Reate might see some more of my money in the future, but they're hardly a budget brand.
 
emjay4248 said:
Hey Kevin I watch your channel all the time and you have been a deciding factor for me on many of my knives including many reputable Chinese knives such as real steel and Steel Will. I have also bought many American manufactured knives on your recommendation too. I am not sure of your opinion of using cheapies as beaters or clones as tryout knives but I have bought a few clones to try out some of your recommendations and have bought most of the real ones. Keep the vids coming
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I'm sure Kevin is thrilled you buy clones of knives he has reviewed :thumbsdown:
 
emjay4248 said:
Hey Kevin I watch your channel all the time and you have been a deciding factor for me on many of my knives including many reputable Chinese knives such as real steel and Steel Will. I have also bought many American manufactured knives on your recommendation too. I am not sure of your opinion of using cheapies as beaters or clones as tryout knives but I have bought a few clones to try out some of your recommendations and have bought most of the real ones. Keep the vids coming
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:thumbsdown::poop:
 
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