Dad got robbed, should I arm him?

G

GarageBoy

Joined
May 23, 2003
Messages
5,952
Right outside the house too, as he was opening the door, 5 guys jumped him, armlocked and punched him in the eye
Should I tell him to get some OC spray or what?
 
Five-on-one is pretty darn hard.

Something belt-fed MIGHT have helped.

A lifetime of martial arts training MIGHT prepare someone for five-on-one.

Better options are outdoor lights on timers and remove bushes and other things near the door that give cover. Awareness is the other thing. Somehow, he missed seeing FIVE guys as he approached the door. Either there's a lot of cover and no lights, or he wasn't paying attention.
 
No, this is Brooklyn NY in a busy main street, which is pretty quiet at night. There is a store next door. Finding guys hanging outside isn't unusual.
 
GarageBoy said:
No, this is Brooklyn NY in a busy main street, which is pretty quiet at night. There is a store next door. Finding guys hanging outside isn't unusual.
Click to expand...

It would be UNusual and suspicious if nobody was around on a NYC street at night. ;)
-Kevin
 
Get him a big, pissed-off doggy...A doggy that'll EAT the bad guys.
 
Five on one - Semi auto 12 gauge, keep no prisoners - A man's home is his castle.
 
Hey GarageBoy,

Your dad is an adult, and it's up to him whether he wants to be carrying around a deterrent. If he feels unsafe, though, you should reccommend some sort of self-defense, although even with mace, a kubotan,or even a khukri, as Chuck said: five on one is pretty darn hard. He could easily be unarmed and have the defense item turned on him, so learning to fight and taking precautions would be best.
 
Would one can of spray last long enough to ensure a good shot to that many guys?

Maybe a can of some of that and a good size (but legal) knife for those who didn't get enough from the spray or to clean up what's left behind waiting. Hopefully the spray alone with stop the plans dead in their tracks. Hope dad's doing fine :) .
 
My initial reaction is -- BEAT THE LITTLE PUNKS TILL THEY BLEED !!! but that won't work when you're coming home late, tired, and distracted to begin with, and outnumbered, too. A Surefire and a whistle might help, without the robbers feeling threatened enough to use deadly force themselves.

The best thing you can do is to let him know you're glad it wasn't worse. Funerals are rarely fun.
 
Large, heavy cane, whether he needs one or not. Cold Steel makes these I believe. Pepper spray is more likely to just enrage an attacker than drive him away. Especially if he's got 4 buddies.
 
Having lived in the Bronx and worked in Ft. Greene, Bklyn for many years I can tell you if he had a knife and wasnt highly skilled with it, they may have taken it away and used it on him.
Having said that, the sad fact is that in NYC, unless you own a large business and can prove you carry large sums, or are related to a politician, you are not getting a carry permit. It is possible to get a sporting pistol license if you've got a clean record and patience(usually takes anywhere from 8 months-1 1/2 years) but that doesnt allow you to carry it loaded.
Like someone else said, your Dad is an adult and has to decide what to do for himself. A good pepper spray might work against one or two if you could get it out fast enough and be accurate with it, but not against five. I think he'd be better off with the cane idea and some training. You still wouldnt be able to take out 5 guys but if you could viciously attack the closest one, and really hurt him bad, it might cause the others to leave. These vermin that rob in packs are not usually the most courageous people. Not everyone would be able to do this, alot of regular everyday people are just not emotionally capable of removing someone's eye or breaking their neck with a cane. If not, you are better off not carrying it as again they could take it and use it against you.
Many in NYC have opted to carry unlicensed guns, feeling that it's better to get arrested than killed. That is a personal decision for each person.

I realize there's no answer here, that's because it's his decision. I'm glad he's not seriously hurt.
 
An increased level of awareness will do wonders.
I'm reminded of a qoute from Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch regarding the importance of body language/awareness/mindset while in public....."If you look like food, you will be eaten"!
Hopefully your dad will recover completely and can look back on the event as a learning experience and not become more fearful.

Larry S.
 
Larry is right , awareness is the most important. Seeing a group of men may be 'normal' but every group should be looked at for the signs of problems.At the point they surround you might be the point where even a gun won't help. None of my family was ever robbed in Brooklyn, maybe a good neighborhood ,maybe better times but we were also taught to be aware and avoid bad situations.
 
mete said:
Larry is right , awareness is the most important. Seeing a group of men may be 'normal' but every group should be looked at for the signs of problems.At the point they surround you might be the point where even a gun won't help. None of my family was ever robbed in Brooklyn, maybe a good neighborhood ,maybe better times but we were also taught to be aware and avoid bad situations.
Click to expand...

Speaking of looking for signs of trouble....this quote comes from a list of Marine Corps. rules for gunfighting (another forum so I won't name it but Google will find it for you)......

"Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet."

Only partly "tongue-in-cheek" in today's environment, .....IMHO.

Larry S.
 
sorry to hear about your dad. hope he's ok. some MA training and some street awareness. I don't think one against five is good odds, MA or no MA. but if you're well-trained and one of them is hurt, the attackers will think twice as they can find easier targets.

get a cane or a dog. dog is best.
 
Right outside the house too, as he was opening the door, 5 guys jumped him, armlocked and punched him in the eye
Should I tell him to get some OC spray or what?
Click to expand...

Five-to-one with surprise in their favor is anything but fair odds. I doubt that there are any devices that would have help your father at that point. OC spray would have probably just pissed them off unless you carry a fire extinguisher worth of the stuff.

Situational awareness would have been key. Also, keep in mind, that this works both ways. The would be muggers may have targeted someone else if your father looked like a riskier target. Look at his comportment and appearance; whether he has a gun or knife, may be less important then whether he appears he could "possibly" have one and was prepared (read crazy enough) to use it.

I also grew up in Brooklyn, and had my father jumped at night by three guys. In his case it happened as he was walking down 9th street, between 4th and 5th avenues, on his way to a late shift. Two guys ran up from behind and another walked from across the street to cut off his escape route. One of the guys threw an arm around his neck to pull him off balance as his buddy also coming from behind circled to continue the assault.

Fortunately, my father had first noticed them about half a block away. He was walking down a fairly desolate street, so there was no place to go, but he did keep an eye on them. As the first guy's arm came around he elbowed him hard in the ribs (guy one dropped to the ground), then punched the second guy in the face, and turned and pulled a hunting knife on the third (he already knew there were three of them). He surprised them and they took flight immediately.

Just having a knife probably wouldn't have helped; but, being aware of how many there were, how they were going to hit you, how you were going to defend yourself, and, getting ready for it did. Then again, he may have been able to diffuse the whole thing by simply turning around. I still remember taking many late night trips on the old J-line subway; every time you reached into your pocket everyone else would too, and as soon as your hand came up with a roll of Certs there was a nearly audible sigh of relief. (that shifty-eyed little old lady sitting across from me with the knitting needles was probably packing... I was happy to see her hand come up empty from that little knitting basket :) )

My best to your father. I hope he gets well soon. Muggings use to be so common in NYC that I use to carry a prepared wallet to drop (a few bucks and papers, expired CCs....).

n2s
 
"Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet."

thats funny. I used to commute into Boston every day and as I stood on the subway platform waiting for the train - I woould kill time by building a mental threat list of the people around me and then decide how I would handle each and every one of them if something "bad" happened. At the time my fiance thought I was nuts, but that awareness of everyone around you and being able to evaulate their threat potential has kept me out of trouble many times later in life. I also always try to find a booth in a restaurant and like to have my back against a wall. :D

Unfortunately most people aren't very aware of their own personal space (the people that dont hold the door open for you, bump into you walking down the street etc) let alone the space around them. I had a weird experience at a grocery store with my fiance where we pulled into a space and a creepy looking guy in an old beat up station wagon was just flat out staring at her. She didn't notice and I didn't say anything. When we were pulling in - he was pulling out, but then decided to pull back into his space. So I got out and avoided eye contact and started towards the store (she was staying in the car). He gets out and starts moving towards our car. I turn around like I forgot something, he gets back into his car and starts to back out again. I told my fiance that I forgot to lock the door (she was still oblivious - looking at a magazine or something) and went back in the store. I stopped just inside and looked back and our friend was circling back and pulled into the space next to ours. I left the store and hauled ass back to our car and the weird guy took off for good this time. I then told her what had been going on and she was totally freaked out and crying.

Anyway - long way to say it, but - ALWAYS make sure you know where you are, who is around you, and have some inkling of how you would handle anyone in the immediate area if they got out of hand. More importantly - pass this on to your family/loved ones.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top