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you got it Aaron! That's exactly where my head was at with this when I first started talking with Chris about this project.
-
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Damascarbotanium-----Chris Moss WiP
- Thread starter Lorien
- Start date
you got it Aaron! That's exactly where my head was at with this when I first started talking with Chris about this project.
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Do you like the knife? Is there anything you would change about the finish on it?
Chris, I don't just like the knife- I love it. Even through seeing it only in these pictures. With that being said, I'm not overly concerned about having the damascus contrasty. My preference is for a subdued, (but shiny and bright) look, generally speaking, especially with a random pattern.
As for the finish, when we talked about the handle treatment earlier, we discussed texturizing it by blasting it, which would cause the fibers to stand proud of the resin, so a smooth, high polish is almost opposite to that. The concept of a highly textured handle against the smoothness of the guard and the 'look' of texture of the damascus was where my head was at originally, however, the allure of the polish is the chatoyancy of the carbon fibers captured in the resin, and I hadn't fully anticipated how rad that would look. I was thinking 'stag' and the knife as Aaron pointed out, is more like 'horn'. I like both.
I have mixed feelings regarding the handle finish. I really don't think we can go wrong either way, but I'm curious about how the blasted cf would look, although I certainly am not going to ask you to go through the trouble, and potential disaster, of doing that now. Maybe some time you could mold up a test piece, blast it and see what happens.
I am going to re-do the blade to make it more even, and I was wanting your input. Also.. on the first sheaths I played around with the magnets, and to be perfectly honest I really don't like them. They hold the blade but then they also attract any pieces of magnetic material and then it is completely impossible to get rid of any abrasive materials that get near the sheath, so every time you insert the knife it could potentially scratch the blade. So, with your permission I would like to scrap the magnet idea. The sheath will be snug and I am going to put a retaining strap on it so it wont fall out.
I'm with you on the magnet thing. It's something I've used with some mixed success, but go ahead and do it the way that feels right to you. It's important that you have peace of mind once this knife leaves your shop.
I am a little concerned about 7-8oz weight for the back panel of the sheath. My concern would be that the point of the knife could go through it, and that's the side facing me! The front face, with two layers of 7-8oz leather plus the carbon fiber weave and the additional stitching will be no problem. Perhaps adding a layer of woven cf a few inches toward the tip, inside the back panel of the sheath would add cut resistance?
I started out by making a pattern. I traced the shape of the blade, designed the welt and the inlay, and transferred that to poster paper.
Then I cut out my pieces. The welt, the two sides and the inlay cover making sure that they were oriented the proper way. I am using 7-8oz leather.
Then, I laid up a sheet of twill carbon fiber for the inlay, and using my template, cut it to size.
So here is a rough preview of what the sheath should look like minus the tooling stitching and belt stud. There is lots more to come.
Chris, I don't just like the knife- I love it. Even through seeing it only in these pictures. With that being said, I'm not overly concerned about having the damascus contrasty. My preference is for a subdued, (but shiny and bright) look, generally speaking, especially with a random pattern.
As for the finish, when we talked about the handle treatment earlier, we discussed texturizing it by blasting it, which would cause the fibers to stand proud of the resin, so a smooth, high polish is almost opposite to that. The concept of a highly textured handle against the smoothness of the guard and the 'look' of texture of the damascus was where my head was at originally, however, the allure of the polish is the chatoyancy of the carbon fibers captured in the resin, and I hadn't fully anticipated how rad that would look. I was thinking 'stag' and the knife as Aaron pointed out, is more like 'horn'. I like both.
I have mixed feelings regarding the handle finish. I really don't think we can go wrong either way, but I'm curious about how the blasted cf would look, although I certainly am not going to ask you to go through the trouble, and potential disaster, of doing that now. Maybe some time you could mold up a test piece, blast it and see what happens.
I am going to re-do the blade to make it more even, and I was wanting your input. Also.. on the first sheaths I played around with the magnets, and to be perfectly honest I really don't like them. They hold the blade but then they also attract any pieces of magnetic material and then it is completely impossible to get rid of any abrasive materials that get near the sheath, so every time you insert the knife it could potentially scratch the blade. So, with your permission I would like to scrap the magnet idea. The sheath will be snug and I am going to put a retaining strap on it so it wont fall out.
I'm with you on the magnet thing. It's something I've used with some mixed success, but go ahead and do it the way that feels right to you. It's important that you have peace of mind once this knife leaves your shop.
I am a little concerned about 7-8oz weight for the back panel of the sheath. My concern would be that the point of the knife could go through it, and that's the side facing me! The front face, with two layers of 7-8oz leather plus the carbon fiber weave and the additional stitching will be no problem. Perhaps adding a layer of woven cf a few inches toward the tip, inside the back panel of the sheath would add cut resistance?
I started out by making a pattern. I traced the shape of the blade, designed the welt and the inlay, and transferred that to poster paper.
Then I cut out my pieces. The welt, the two sides and the inlay cover making sure that they were oriented the proper way. I am using 7-8oz leather.
Then, I laid up a sheet of twill carbon fiber for the inlay, and using my template, cut it to size.
So here is a rough preview of what the sheath should look like minus the tooling stitching and belt stud. There is lots more to come.
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- Sep 1, 2006
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I'm with Roger, that handle needs to stay shiny.
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- Jan 2, 2006
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- 1,073
i think that carbon fiber would look cool blasted, sort of like textured weng, however, it would be rough on the hands. I am going to try it for sure.. but not on this knife.. i think the shiney is the best way to go. I do have the first block that i made for this knife, and i am going to try blasting it to see what it does. i will let you know
thanks
~chris
thanks
~chris
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2001
- Messages
- 12,336
Hey guys,
I've been mum, but I'm a lurker to this thread often.
Chris = Mad Skillz.
Lorien = Project Madman.
Coop
I've been mum, but I'm a lurker to this thread often.
Chris = Mad Skillz.
Lorien = Project Madman.
Coop
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2009
- Messages
- 503
Great knife Chris and great ideas Lorien!
Id be a bit careful having the carbon sand or bead blasted. Sealing it up is the way to go I think. You don't want any stray fibers making there way into your hand!
Thanks for sharing
Matt
Id be a bit careful having the carbon sand or bead blasted. Sealing it up is the way to go I think. You don't want any stray fibers making there way into your hand!
Thanks for sharing
Matt
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2006
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- 1,073
Hey guys,
I've been mum, but I'm a lurker to this thread often.
Chris = Mad Skillz.
Lorien = Project Madman.
Coop
thanks! you will get to see the project first hand before anyone else. i am finishing up the sheath today, and then i am gonna show it to my friends and family on sunday before shipping it off to you. so i will be very interested to see what you think first hand.
thanks for all the interest!
~Chris
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2003
- Messages
- 12,554
opinions are very welcome at this point. Thank you Roger:thumbup:
The craftsmanship is first rate, the design is still.......lacking.
For some reason, you decided that you should try your hand at knife design....and well respected makers indulge you. No one is being done a service by that, imo.
As I pm'd Mr. Moss, the blade is like a barong blade, and the handle is a modern and very odd looking s-guard, making the mate of the two even more bizarre.
Happy Holidays, and Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
- Joined
- May 23, 2008
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- 954
Thanks both for the WIP. I have been contemplating a project using similar materials; may have given me the info/motivation I need.
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- Dec 5, 2005
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- 27,638
a little research will show how 'ba-wrong' you are. The blade looks, and is, nothing like a barong.
Follow through with the commitment you made to me and to the forum a year ago, and stay out of my threads.
Your petty insults are tiresome.
:thumbdn:
The Amazing Virginian
Gold Member
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- Feb 24, 2010
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- 9,881
I have enjoyed this WIP thread very much, and I think I have learned a lot from it. Thanks very much for posting it.
But . . . here we go . . .
I don't think that blade looks anything at all like any barong I have ever seen. But maybe you could direct me to some pictures that would educate me to the contrary.
Also, maybe I missed something along the way, but the only part of this design that I thought Lorien really did was the S-Guard. The blade and handle look to me almost identical to the way Chris originally drew them.
That having been said . . . here are the worthless opinions of someone who has never actually made a knife . . .
In the abstract, I really like the handle. A lot.
I do not care for the blade shape. But I have seen a lot of blades similar to that, so that is clearly just a personal thing.
I generally do not like pronounced S-guards, and I don't think this one looks good on this knife, nor do I see any real function or purpose for it. BTW, I did not like the original S-Guard design either. Maybe something in between the two designs would have been better.
To, me, just from the pictures, it looks like way too much blade for way too little handle. I would need to hold it in my hand to know for sure, but I would probably want another inch of handle and a maybe a bigger girth for a blade that big.
But my real problem goes to a question that was asked earlier about where this knife balances and the answer that nobody seems to know. For me, the balance is a pretty important thing in a knife, and I would like to think that one would have a really good idea how that was going to work out before one got almost done making the knife.
Like I said . . . these are only the worthless opinions of someone who never made a knife in my life. So please feel free to treat them accordingly.
Oh, and BTW, no offense but I liked the looks of the CBR just fine the way it came from Honda. Better than the other two incarnations I saw here. But, as they say, DSFDF!
But . . . here we go . . .
I don't think that blade looks anything at all like any barong I have ever seen. But maybe you could direct me to some pictures that would educate me to the contrary.
Also, maybe I missed something along the way, but the only part of this design that I thought Lorien really did was the S-Guard. The blade and handle look to me almost identical to the way Chris originally drew them.
That having been said . . . here are the worthless opinions of someone who has never actually made a knife . . .
In the abstract, I really like the handle. A lot.
I do not care for the blade shape. But I have seen a lot of blades similar to that, so that is clearly just a personal thing.
I generally do not like pronounced S-guards, and I don't think this one looks good on this knife, nor do I see any real function or purpose for it. BTW, I did not like the original S-Guard design either. Maybe something in between the two designs would have been better.
To, me, just from the pictures, it looks like way too much blade for way too little handle. I would need to hold it in my hand to know for sure, but I would probably want another inch of handle and a maybe a bigger girth for a blade that big.
But my real problem goes to a question that was asked earlier about where this knife balances and the answer that nobody seems to know. For me, the balance is a pretty important thing in a knife, and I would like to think that one would have a really good idea how that was going to work out before one got almost done making the knife.
Like I said . . . these are only the worthless opinions of someone who never made a knife in my life. So please feel free to treat them accordingly.
Oh, and BTW, no offense but I liked the looks of the CBR just fine the way it came from Honda. Better than the other two incarnations I saw here. But, as they say, DSFDF!
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- Dec 5, 2005
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- 27,638
sans self deprecation, (because it's not deserved
), The Virginian provides a well thought out critique which will serve Chris well in future projects, (and myself as well).
To me, this knife is what it is, and I love it for that, and the process leading to its realization.
There are several aspects of construction here that are clearly exploratory for Chris, and while there certainly is room for improvement wrt design, Rome wasn't built in a day. This, after all, was his first s guard, first take down, first titanium guard, first molded unidirectional carbon fiber handle, his first carbon fiber inlayed sheath... lots of new stuff. Add to the fact that I threw him a curve ball, (no pun intended) after he had profiled the blade and made a design around it, I think he did awesome.
If the design takes a bit of a back seat, I can live with that. There are very few knives, relatively, that I have seen which I feel have the air of perfection about them when it comes to design. There is more to this knife that I'm attached to than its design. Although it looks rad to me.
Any student of art spends many years learning how, what and why of materials before they can even think to produce a masterpiece. Ironically, if they can achieve 'masterpiece' status, their earlier, fledgling efforts somehow become valuable, even if the artist would see them in the trash if he/she could. Whether Chris Moss is able to produce a true 'masterpiece' or not, will become evident in the fullness of time. Nowhere in our discussions did Chris give even a hint that he thought this knife is a 'masterpiece'. Although it looks rad to him.
There certainly is room for growth and refinement of design, I felt myself desiring to make suggestions regarding design along the way, but as I said earlier, I held back and let Chris 'follow his muse' once he got the gist of what I had in mind. This most certainly will not be the last knife that Chris will make. He's young and potentially has a bright future in knife making ahead of him.
I've had emails back and forth with Ryan Weeks regarding 'kinds' of knife makers. I regard Chris Moss as an 'artsy' knife maker, not likely to start up a mini production shop or farming out work for the purpose of replicating a design. But a guy passionate about seeing his individual visions of knives through to completion at a high level of quality and not necessarily quantity.
I'm currently working on an s guard knife design that is vastly different from this knife, but informed by it and the feedback given earlier in the thread, which unfortunately became poisoned by some underlying issues. I was going to send it to Chris, but if anyone here would like to see it, I'll put it up here for critique.
The airing of grievances are generally more helpful when accompanied by suggestions toward improvement.
), The Virginian provides a well thought out critique which will serve Chris well in future projects, (and myself as well).To me, this knife is what it is, and I love it for that, and the process leading to its realization.
There are several aspects of construction here that are clearly exploratory for Chris, and while there certainly is room for improvement wrt design, Rome wasn't built in a day. This, after all, was his first s guard, first take down, first titanium guard, first molded unidirectional carbon fiber handle, his first carbon fiber inlayed sheath... lots of new stuff. Add to the fact that I threw him a curve ball, (no pun intended) after he had profiled the blade and made a design around it, I think he did awesome.
If the design takes a bit of a back seat, I can live with that. There are very few knives, relatively, that I have seen which I feel have the air of perfection about them when it comes to design. There is more to this knife that I'm attached to than its design. Although it looks rad to me.
Any student of art spends many years learning how, what and why of materials before they can even think to produce a masterpiece. Ironically, if they can achieve 'masterpiece' status, their earlier, fledgling efforts somehow become valuable, even if the artist would see them in the trash if he/she could. Whether Chris Moss is able to produce a true 'masterpiece' or not, will become evident in the fullness of time. Nowhere in our discussions did Chris give even a hint that he thought this knife is a 'masterpiece'. Although it looks rad to him.
There certainly is room for growth and refinement of design, I felt myself desiring to make suggestions regarding design along the way, but as I said earlier, I held back and let Chris 'follow his muse' once he got the gist of what I had in mind. This most certainly will not be the last knife that Chris will make. He's young and potentially has a bright future in knife making ahead of him.
I've had emails back and forth with Ryan Weeks regarding 'kinds' of knife makers. I regard Chris Moss as an 'artsy' knife maker, not likely to start up a mini production shop or farming out work for the purpose of replicating a design. But a guy passionate about seeing his individual visions of knives through to completion at a high level of quality and not necessarily quantity.
I'm currently working on an s guard knife design that is vastly different from this knife, but informed by it and the feedback given earlier in the thread, which unfortunately became poisoned by some underlying issues. I was going to send it to Chris, but if anyone here would like to see it, I'll put it up here for critique.
The airing of grievances are generally more helpful when accompanied by suggestions toward improvement.
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2000
- Messages
- 8,888
Lorien, I think you have been very patient with those who have offered criticism here, especially considering the fact that no one who has posted here other than Chris has held the knife in hand. What I especially like about the piece, aside from some very interesting materials and finishing techniques, is the very nature of the exploration it represents. If no one brought to fruition innovative design concepts/combinations like the ideas incorporated in this piece, the blade-making world would have a very meager store of design to draw on. It's just this sort of experimentation that can set off new directions in how people think, and the evolutionary results from such ideas have unlimited potential in my mind.
Your patient acceptance of the criticism offered here and your ability to stay "in the moment" of your and Chris's creative enthusiasm, continuing to share the progress openly with us, shows character and generosity on your part. I personally appreciate that very much. I also think the knife is a truly intriguing piece, and would love the chance to hold it in hand. That obviously isn't going to happen, so I appreciate even more the chance to contemplate the description and pics here.
Thank you.
Your patient acceptance of the criticism offered here and your ability to stay "in the moment" of your and Chris's creative enthusiasm, continuing to share the progress openly with us, shows character and generosity on your part. I personally appreciate that very much. I also think the knife is a truly intriguing piece, and would love the chance to hold it in hand. That obviously isn't going to happen, so I appreciate even more the chance to contemplate the description and pics here.
Thank you.
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2002
- Messages
- 13,348
Could we maybe get dimensions - blade length and overall length? Proportions can be hard to judge from a photo, but I am guesssing that 5 1/2" is about where the handle is at. (Wouldn't shock me if it were a half inch longer, but would surprise me if it were significantly shorter.) If so, that would not be "too little", IMO.
Roger
Roger