DAMASCUS – Functional Knife Blade or Art?

[Kevin Jones]

Damascus steel dates back before 400BC getting it’s name from the artisans of Damascus Syria who used the steel for making fine sword blades.

I’m very partial to damascus knives and in my opinion pattern welded steel gives the knife another dimension of interest and beauty while giving the maker another opportunity to display his/her artistic talent.

It’s an incredibility amazing process enabling the maker to create an infinite number of patterns and effects. In fact, even though there’s processes and techniques utilized by the maker to achieve certain patterns such as ladder, wolf’s tooth, raindrop and feather to name a few, there’s still NO two damascus blades just alike. It’s almost like the finger print of a knife.

We were fortunate enough to visit the ABS school in Old Washington Arkansas last October during Jerry Fisk’s Micro Show and just so happens Steve Dunn and Dickey Robinson were teaching a damascus class. While I was aware of the process it was just amazing seeing the actual forge welding of the billets, the manipulation of the steel and pattern then forging to shape of the final blade. In addition, Steve demonstrated at the show on the whiteboard just how the very complex feather pattern is created. It’s just an enlightening experience seeing a raw billet of steel transforming into a beautiful and exquisitely patterned blade.

Mosaic damascus is another process by which the artist can create any number of elaborate patterns and images in the blade steel as we see utilized in many beautiful folder and fixed blade designs.

Some collectors and makers don’t care for damascus. In fact some are very opposed to it saying it takes away from or offers nothing. And there’s the question as to if it’s an inferior blade especially if addressing mosaic damascus blades.
So does damascus steel serve a functional purpose as durable blade steel or is it just an artful frill to add pleasure for the eye?

• Do you prefer conventional or damascus steel for your knives?

• Do you think damascus blades and/or components add value to custom knives?

• Who are your favorite damascus makers and what are your favorite patterns?

• How does damascus blade integrity compare to conventional carbon steel and other steel blades?

• Please share your favorite damascus knives or post examples of well executed and/or unique damascus patterns.

Please feel free to address the above questions and/or add any related comments, opinions and views.

 

[Jon Brand]

Ive been waiting for a thread on the steel itself. Thank you Kevin! We seem to cover alot more handle material then blades. When I have time, Ill be back.

 

[betzner]

Master furniture craftsmen have been achieving beautiful recreations of classic renderings from over the last many centuries, tweeking it here and there. Is it functional? Yes. Does the owner treat it with a bit more care because of the care that went into it's creation? Probably. Is it costly? Probably. Is there a market for it? Hell, yes. Does the same apply to knives? Most certainly. If there is a market for it, it will be made, no matter what it is. Are any of us going to go out and use a beautiful damascus blade as we would an ATS-34 edc? I kinda doubt it. So why bother to compare whether it is functional. Sure, it's functional, but progress overtook the degree of it's functionality long ago, so why bother to ask the question?

 

[betzner]

I am not suggesting that the question should not have been asked, it's more of a statement about functionality. I would hate to live in a knife collecting world without the damascus creations around us!

 

[Doug C]

• Do you prefer conventional or damascus steel for your knives?

• Do you think damascus blades and/or components add value to custom knives?

• Who are your favorite damascus makers and what are your favorite patterns?

• How does damascus blade integrity compare to conventional carbon steel and other steel blades?

• Please share your favorite damascus knives or post examples of well executed and/or unique damascus patterns.

Please feel free to address the above questions and/or add any related comments, opinions and views.

I don't really care if its straight steel or Damascus,unless its an exceptional pattern.
Yep! I believe blade,guard,pommel being Damascus adds to value.
Harvey Dean's feather pattern,a wild Filicietti pattern I saw on one of his Bowies,several Fitch patterns and everything Damascus from Sfreddo.
As far as integrity of Damascus compared to conventional carbon steel,are you talking about actual cutting and chopping?

Doug

 

[Kevin Jones]

I though I would start off with some fine examples:

A Chuck Ward Photo

 

[Bladeandbarrel]

Most is purely art.

Some like Zowada/Cashen/ Knight L6-01 actually cuts great and is super tough.

Some of most attractive decorative patterns for me are multibar Turkish twist by Rados and some of the "wave pattern" coming out of AR and TX.

I really like the starburst pattern on that fouth Fisk from the top. A great pic that I have had saved to my hard drive for a while now..

 

[ckerwin]

There should be no difference in the cutting ability from a makers carbon knife or their damascus knife. Now are we also putting pictures into this damascus discussion as a true damascus blade? Just wondering. Favorites are Fisk-dog star, tears of the wounded, and wolves tooth, Dean & Dunn Texas wind, JR Cook's ALT #5 pattern. Also ladder by Daryl Meier.

 

[ptgdvc]

Here are a few more.

 

[Don Hanson III]

Damascus can be a very good performer or a very poor performer.

It can also be beautiful or ugly as hell.

It all depends on the materials and the maker

 

[Don Hanson III]

Oh, and I have made both

 

[Kohai999]

• Do you prefer conventional or damascus steel for your knives?

• Do you think damascus blades and/or components add value to custom knives?

• Who are your favorite damascus makers and what are your favorite patterns?

• How does damascus blade integrity compare to conventional carbon steel and other steel blades?

• Please share your favorite damascus knives or post examples of well executed and/or unique damascus patterns.

Kevin....nice thread topic

1. I like damascus, I like carbon steel, I like hamon, I like stainless steel...really depends on the piece.

2. Not a huge fan of damascus components, general prefer stainless steel...it CAN add value to the piece, again, it depends on the piece(are you starting to see a pattern here)

3. I like Don Fogg Spirit Damascus, Jerry Rados Turkish Twist, just about anything Devin Thomas does, specifically his stainless raindrop, basketweave, reptilian, fireball and ladder patterns, Don Hanson and Tom Ferry mosaics, and Cashen multibar. Matt Diskin also makes exceptional damascus.

4. Damascus integrity depends upon the maker. The above makers that I mentioned can be trusted, there are many others. That said, properly heat treated and cycled, carbon steel will always have higher integrity.

5. The truly wonderful thing about damascus is that the etched layer is an oxide, and is excellent at holding rust preventative. Even if there is light rusting on a pattern welded blade, it is easily removed without disturbing the look of the blade, and reducing value. This is not the case with hand rubbed carbon steel blades.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Bladeandbarrel]

that the etched layer is an oxide, and is excellent at holding rust preventative.

This is a great point and often misunderstood. This is one reason "good" Damascus makes good steel for a hard-use knife.

 

[on_the_edge]

Damascus can be a very good performer or a very poor performer.

It can also be beautiful or ugly as hell.

It all depends on the materials and the maker

Don, or anyone else who'd care to answer--

If they can only have one or the other, do reputable, high-end knifemakers who use damascus tend to favor beauty over functionality (it is art only/mostly) or do they tend to favor functionality over beauty (it is mostly a user), or is it neither? Are both typically required before a high-end knifemaker will sell a knife to the public?

Please bear with me if this is a bit of a thread hijack. I don't mean to be obnoxious, but I thought these questions to be logical extensions of those in the original post.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Don, or anyone else who'd care to answer--

If they can only have one or the other, do reputable, high-end knifemakers who use damascus tend to favor beauty over functionality (it is art only/mostly) or do they tend to favor functionality over beauty (it is mostly a user), or is it neither? Are both typically required before a high-end knifemaker will sell a knife to the public?

Please bear with me if this is a bit of a thread hijack. I don't mean to be obnoxious, but I thought these questions to be logical extensions of those in the original post.

Good questions and no hijack at all, as that was where I was trying to go with my original "function vs beauty" question.

Unless I'm mistaken, the very early wootz damascus was actually the most durable and fictional steel of the day at a time when these attributes could mean life or death for the sword bearer in battle. The wootz steel (ingots) were actually produced in India then sent to the sword makers of Damascus Syria who then forged these fine swords. So the first damascus was actually utilized for it's functionality not it's beauty.

I know we have some damascus scholars on this forum that can give us some good information. I kind of intended this to be an informational thread on damascus with a lot of eye candy thrown in.

 

[Larrin]

I love damascus, pretty much all of it. Various standard patterns, san-mai damascus, mosaic damascus, stainless damascus, exotic steel combinations for high performance.....

If I name all of my favorite damascus makers I'll forget someone and then I'll feel bad, so I'll just say Devin Thomas.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

As far as my preference is concerned, it depends on the knife. I really like pattern welded steel, but I don't think it is the right choice for quite a few knives.

Yes, I do think pattern welded steel adds value when used appropriately.

I don't really have any favorite makers of pattern welded steel. There are too many that do a fantastic job.

Properly made, pattern welded steel compares very favorably with regular carbon steels.

Pattern welded steel costs more, and to me it isn't any better a blade material. It is chosen because people like the way it looks, not for its performance.

 

[jdm61]

The damascus patterns that have really grabbed my attention of late are Don Hanson's old school very high layer count W2/wrought iron random, the "feather" patterns, crushed W/wolf's tooth pattern that Jerry Fisk used on his bolstered Sendero recently, the "explosion" pattern and an Al Pendray kard that I saw where he created a "chevron" pattern using alternating pieces of wootz and standard pattern welded steel. An older piece that has always impressed the hell out of me was a Viking dagger that Rob Hudson did back in the early 90's that had a multi bar core and flame pattern edges. I am not as big a fan of mosaic blades as some may be.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

This is one that I like a great deal.

 

[Jon Brand]

I just wanna add that the word "Damas" is arabic for water. One theory Ive heard regarding the term is that the shimmering wave like pattern on traditional damascus resembles water and this is how it got its name. Not to say that it didn't had its roots in Syria, but this is just another peice.

I prefer damascus to regular stainless or carbon steel simply due to the aesthetics. Moving a damascus blade around and getting the light to hit it just right adds alot to admiring a knife. I like mosaic damascus for the art but have no idea how strong it is. I live in NY and there isnt a whole lot to cut around here.

I think damascus adds value if it was forged by the the maker. This seperates it from the other peices out there. It has to look nice and be well made or its no better then anything else, in my opinion.

As far as my favorite damascus makers go.. I dont have too many knives. I have six of Hansons and a Cliff Parker. They make a similar style to a certain extent which is right up my ally. I like some steel ive seen on Rick Dunkerlys, Shane Taylor, Joe Olson etc etc. I love the mosaic damascus folders.

Kevin, Thanks for posting that brown lip pearl folder up top. That was a good buy and Don did a tremendous job on it.