DAMASCUS – Functional Knife Blade or Art?

[lwrhea]

Speaking of function, a damascus blade CAN cut better than a single steel blade due to the micro serrations of the layering as it reaches the edge. A lot depends on the pattern of the damascus, number of layers, etc. Some cutting chores are benefited by this.
I dont generally prefer damascus over a good carbon steel, but some might find the cutting qualities of damascus blades appealing and make or order their knives accordingly. Thats not to say I dont like damascus. I do. Just speaking of function right now.
Lin

 

[RogerP]

I have always been a fan of damascus blades and always will be. But I am just as much of a fan of wild hamons and perfectly executed "plain" hadn-rubbed satin finishes.

Damascus blades can perform exceptionally well - depends on the maker. I recall that Kevin Cashen won a cutting competition with a damascus blade. But then again, when it comes to blade performance, the skill of the maker ranks above the blade material itself in importance. I have been putting one damascus Master Smith damascus knife to a LOT of use lately and it has performed superbly:

This had been Burt Foster's personal user, so clearly the maker did not see damascus as a performance detriment.

Okay - on to some random damascus eye candy:

Bradshaw:

Filicietti:

Caffrey:

Newton:

Williams:

Rhea:

 

[Don Hanson III]

Don, or anyone else who'd care to answer--

If they can only have one or the other, do reputable, high-end knifemakers who use damascus tend to favor beauty over functionality (it is art only/mostly) or do they tend to favor functionality over beauty (it is mostly a user), or is it neither? Are both typically required before a high-end knifemaker will sell a knife to the public?

Please bear with me if this is a bit of a thread hijack. I don't mean to be obnoxious, but I thought these questions to be logical extensions of those in the original post.

I feel both are required, who wants a pretty knife that wont cut ???

I make damascus for it's beauty but at the same time, it has to perform or I wont use it. Most of my damascus (pattern welded steel is a better term) is all high carbon, if it's not, then I make sure the mix has at lest .75 carbon or more.

Mosaic damascus would be the weakest but the way I treat it, twisting before accordion cutting or twisting tight and flatten. I have flexed thin mosaic folder blades more than one should and was very surprised at the strength. I use the mosaics in fittings and folder blades but not in the big blades.

STeven makes a very good point. Damascus is much less prone to rust than straight carbon, much easier to care for and much easier to refurbish if needs to be.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Here's a very interesting mosaic pattern from JW Randall from Reno several years ago. JW appropriately called it the "Mustang Bowie".

 

[Keith Montgomery]

One very fine maker of pattern welded and mosaic steel is John Davis, JS.

Photo taken from BladeGallery's site.

Photo taken from BladeGallery's site.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I just wanna add that the word "Damas" is arabic for water. One theory Ive heard regarding the term is that the shimmering wave like pattern on traditional damascus resembles water and this is how it got its name. Not to say that it didn't had its roots in Syria, but this is just another peice.

You are correct Jon as in Persia this process was known as “watered” steel because of the way the surface alternated with bands of dark and light wavy line, like watermarks.

But then another theory is that the term "Damascus" steel was adapted form a noted swordsmith of the day who was named Damasqui.

So as usual multiple theories, however we know that the ore for producing wootz was only mined in India then destined for Syria which was the forging "Ozarks" of today.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Many people don't like mosaic, especially on big blades, but I do. Shane Taylor, Rick Dunkerly, Barry Gallagher and Wade Colter (The Montana Mafia) all do excellent work in mosaic. Raymond Rybar does pretty good work as well.

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

I made my first visit To Jerry Rados' shop almost 10 years ago now. I was having some trouble that he was kind enough to dig me out of.
When I was there that day, I saw something I will never forget:
He had just fiunished his Salt Pot heat treating on a large fighter that he said was headed to Afganistan.
It was 512 layer Random W2/203E.
It also had a rather long tang.
He greabbed that knife and said to follow him outside.
Holding the knife by the tang and with a big sweeping over-head arc, he BURIED about 3 inches of that knife down into a railroad tie. He then swung his fat, meaty, Jerry Rados foot and side-kicked that knife sideways so as to try to break it! I remember seeing his foot FLY backwards from the kick and almost knock him over! Then, he did it again! This time he kicked it HARDER and the blade DUG a huge divot out of that railroad tie!
He said that since that knife was headed for use by a Soldier, if it was going to fail, he wanted it to fail HERE!
These two knives were forged by me from Jerry's steel.
Since that day, I have never used any one else's Damascus except Jerry's.
Yes, pattern welded steel can be VERY TOUGH!!
In addition to the etching oxides addeing rust protection, I also hot-blue the Damascus knives I make. Extra protection on TOP of the oxides!

 

[Kevin Jones]

Many people don't like mosaic, especially on big blades, but I do. Shane Taylor, Rick Dunkerly, Barry Gallagher and Wade Colter (The Montana Mafia) all do excellent work in mosaic. Raymond Rybar does pretty good work as well.

I'm not so sure people don't like mosaic on big blades, it's just that considering it's construction; the welds have the potential to come under much more stress with hard use with big blades.

Makers, any opinions here?

Keith I would add Jon Christensen to your list. I consider him to be one of the best. He had some examples at this year's Blade Show that were amazing. Perhaps, I can find photos.

As previously stated, I'm crazy about ALL damascus as the history, heritage, functionality and beauty is fascinating to say the least.

 

[flaviopknife]

Task that in Damascus, to render little works them, is not the design but the material. I have always had problems with Damascus with the nikel, the thread becomes one saws and the sliding of the folder is orrendo. The visual effect but is beautiful.

Flavio Poratelli

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Overall, I think my favorite wootz. Here is a billet made by Achim Wirtz

He also makes some beautiful pattern welded steel.

 

[OldPhysics]

My checkbook (and my wife!) forbid me to look any further at this Thread!

Beautiful, just beautiful.

For me, damascus adds another dimension to the knife as a true piece of art, a miniature sculpture, if you will. Done right, so that the damascus pattern flows with the rest of the piece...well, there is nothing better!

Damascus can draw the eye into the knife and focus attention first on the patterns involved (bold or subtle -- both are possible) and then, in a truly great knife, on the shapes and details of the knife's components. A Hanson or a Sfreddo damascus knife is an example of total harmony -- every piece, every pattern, every detail supports the whole. I get the feeling that each knife is the result of deep instinct, enormous experience, and careful planning, all working together.

But if it won't cut...it ain't a knife!!

 

[Kevin Jones]

My checkbook (and my wife!) forbid me to look any further at this Thread!

Beautiful, just beautiful.

For me, damascus adds another dimension to the knife as a true piece of art, a miniature sculpture, if you will. Done right, so that the damascus pattern flows with the rest of the piece...well, there is nothing better!

Damascus can draw the eye into the knife and focus attention first on the patterns involved (bold or subtle -- both are possible) and then, in a truly great knife, on the shapes and details of the knife's components. A Hanson or a Sfreddo damascus knife is an example of total harmony -- every piece, every pattern, every detail supports the whole. I get the feeling that each knife is the result of deep instinct, enormous experience, and careful planning, all working together.

But if it won't cut...it ain't a knife!!

As an excellent example of your statement above, this Hanson has three different and distinct damascus patterns and a very active hamon yet "all in total harmony to support the whole".
And it will cut you if you look at it too hard.

 

[jjtjr]

JD Smith makes some great damascus. Here is a short sword that he made.

Close up of steel pattern

another

 

[Jon Brand]

This is Johan Gustafsson's from Knife Legends a while back. Coop's photo really shows that color nicely.

One of Cliff Parker's Mammoth knives from Blade Gallery.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Here's another Cliff Parker folder "Dolphins" from a Blade Gallery Photo. This piece was on the cover of Blade about two years ago.

 

[Jon Brand]

Haha, I was going to post that one. I think these blades are well made and may not seem as strong just because they are so thin and flexible. Im sure they could all preform well for their delicate size. If more of that same steel was thicker and more beefy, i'm sure it would preform very well on bigger tasks
.

 

[canineforge]

Pattern welded steel is not a very large part of my small collection, but it sure does fascinate me. Once again, a great thread, Kevin. I am always wanting to learn more about the treatment/function of knife steels. I see many patterns I like. The makers knowledge and process are key, to say the least.
I am not sure I will add any mosaic to my collection, then I see something like this:

Okay...maybe I will?

- Joe

 

[Tlonghorn]

Would it be crude of me to ask if the new CASE RAINDROP DAMASCUS,
would be a useful (read practical in daily use) pocket ornament ?
Will it hold an edge cutting cardboard, tape, twigs, leather, farm use?
I fell for the looks, cuz I know that CASE made a reliable tool.
I appologize if this was rude, but I had to ask about the value of the Case.
Really enjoyed all the previous data.

-Steve

 

[Kevin Jones]

Would it be crude of me to ask if the new CASE RAINDROP DAMASCUS,
would be a useful (read practical in daily use) pocket ornament ?
Will it hold an edge cutting cardboard, tape, twigs, leather, farm use?
I fell for the looks, cuz I know that CASE made a reliable tool.
I appologize if this was rude, but I had to ask about the value of the Case.
Really enjoyed all the previous data.
-Steve

It's hard to give a definitive answer without knowing the maker, process used and content of the damascus, however knowing the Case reputation for providing knives that can be used for a lifetime I expect your folder will give good service for the task you mentioned.