Damascus shouldn't be cheap

Culpeper

Culpeper

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Out of curiosity I ordered one of Marble's imported Damascus knives...

http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/e...archText=marbles&Mode=Text&range=11&SKU=MA515

I don't think this is a real Damascus blade. I could be wrong. It could be cheaply manufactured Damascus. But this is what I got.

The top of the box states, "Marble's Damascus".

It is a good looking knife but the blade is coated with something that looks like varnish or something.

On the side of the box it states, "Webster L. Marble's legacy began 100 years ago when he started designing and manufacturing outdoor tools and equipment. His designs, like the now famous 'Safety Axe' were both inventive and useful. Today, Marble's vision of merging modern technology with time-tested tradition comes to life in the Marble's Damascus collector's line. This Damascus collection honors the ancient tradition of repeatedly folding steel onto itself during the forging process to make the steel strong and flexible. This process reveals the beautiful layered patterns of Damascus steel."

The end of the box states, "Pakistan".

The side of the box states

The Office and Factory of the
Marble's Safety Axe Co.
Gladstone, Mich. 1907
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This is very strange coming from Marble's. At least to me it seems strange. What be even stranger if this is some sort of cheap trick to make a blade look like Damascus.

It's not a bad knife at all. I just think it is a little weird considering the company and how inexpensive it is.
 
Marble's went out of business years ago. The current owner of the trademark has no relationship to the original company.

Pattern-welded steel doesn't have to be expensive; it can be forged with triphammers on a mass-production basis. There is some very cheap pattern-welded steel being made in India by Windlass.... It can be faked, too, of course, but just because it's cheap doesn't mean it isn't really pattern-welded.
 
Can you explain what pattern-weld is and how it relates to current date Damascus blades? Thanks.
 
I have a cheap knife that I bought several years ago from a local dealer, who has since gone out of business. I had been looking in the display cases and noticed a damascus looking knife. They hadnt put out the price tags yet, so I asked him about it, he said it was 6.00 dollars. I then said say what, and he told me that they were froma company that puts some kind of etching on them to look somewhat like damascus. I bought it, for it was a small price to pay for the piece. Bear cutlery has some damascus knives, that look pretty good in the pictures, but I dont know about the quality. What you do notice, is that the pocket knives and fixed blades have very reasonable prices on them.
 
A while back, I made the mistake of ordering one of the BW Customs that SMKW, sells. It looked like a decent knife for the money, and I ashamedly admit, I was taken by the cool celtic design of the knife...when it arrived...I was so disappointed. The first thing I noticed was the "stuff" all over the damasacus....oil, shellac, not even sure what it was...but I gave it a good once over and it was ok...sort of. The quality was bad...no other way to describe it...and then...in very small letters...on the box only...the word "Pakistan"...I knew then, that I had garbage...and nothing but garbage. I am sadly afraid that Marbles has gone the same route from the little I have seen from them...really sad too, as they used to have some really nice knives.

On the plus side...I took my BW custom "Celtic Fighter" to a swap meet and traded it straight up for a wonderful beagle pupply who has become a welcome addition to my family for myself and my kids. I was not smart to buy this knife without more info...and I advise all you fine folks to RUN full speed AWAY from any Brian Wilhoite SMKW knife....you will be sorry if you waste your money on this stuff, no where on the site will you find that it is made in Pakistan, and when you get it, you will sadly find it is the case.

I am done buying lower priced "damascus" steel knives...I usually never pay more than $100 bucks for a knife....never more than $150. If it seems too good to be true for the money...than more than likely, it probably is.
 
Culpeper said:
Can you explain what pattern-weld is and how it relates to current date Damascus blades? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Oh boy, where to start. Ok not being a expert on the matter I'm just going to post this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel which you should read. Then I'm going to suggest that you Google for more details.

For those who don't want to do all that reading or research "modern damascus steel" = pattern-welded steel, pattern-welded steel may or may not equal "true damascus." The experts can take over now.
 
well, looking on the back edge of the knife I can make out what may be described as layers but I think the blade was dipped in acid or something and varnished over with something clear. As "Bowie" is a word used for big knife I think there are cheap methods used to call a blade "Damascus". In other words such methods as applying what amounts to a sophisticated and inexpensive paint job on a knife will give it the desired appearance. I can't decide whether to send it back or use emery compound on the finish to see what I end up with. Probably a mess.
 
Kestrel64 said:
On the plus side...I took my BW custom "Celtic Fighter" to a swap meet and traded it straight up for a wonderful beagle pupply who has become a welcome addition to my family for myself and my kids.
Click to expand...
I would say you made the deal of the year there. Congrats!

Culpeper said:
I think the blade was dipped in acid or something and varnished over with something clear....I can't decide whether to send it back or use emery compound on the finish to see what I end up with. Probably a mess.
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Damascus is normally etched with acid to bring out the contrast and make the pattern visible. If you use an abrasive on it you may lose the pattern an have to re-etch it... if it really is damascus, that is.
 
TorzJohnson said:
Damascus is normally etched with acid to bring out the contrast and make the pattern visible. If you use an abrasive on it you may lose the pattern an have to re-etch it... if it really is damascus, that is.
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Duly noted.
 
Culpeper said:
I can't decide whether to send it back or use emery compound on the finish to see what I end up with. Probably a mess.
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Send that Pakistani trash back. You'll be glad you did because if you don't it will always be in the back of your mind and that knife will never make you as happy as it should. Just my 2 cents. Good luck.
 
jonnyt16 said:
Send that Pakistani trash back. You'll be glad you did because if you don't it will always be in the back of your mind and that knife will never make you as happy as it should. Just my 2 cents. Good luck.
Click to expand...

I took your advice and sent it back for refund. And to make myself feel good about it I ordered an 8" Sheffield Bowie from England. Now, I feel much better.

bowie7inch.jpg


What I have learned from this thread. Pattern-welded steel is cosmetic and not diversified as real Damascus steel. Real Damascus steel is not easy to come by in the first place and it is in fact not cheap. So, thanks for all the input. It has been very informative.
 
I picked up a Sheffield folder from Home Depot and it was just horrible. I knew it would be; the price was eight dollars and it was a copy of a Gerber AR 3.00. Forget the spine whack test, it flunked the close while locked test! I hope they have an upper tier line of knives or you may be sending that back.

Regarding Damascus steels and Bear, I bought some folders and fixed knives about two years ago. Cheap Damascus usually has under 150 layers. Bear, I think, has 512, but their Damascus is stainless steel, not the carbon steel blades that are said to be the best. At any rate, checking eBay, I've noticed the prices of those same knives I got for a great price are substantially more now. I have no problems with Bear and Son's as a medium to low priced manufacturer of Damascus. I will say the blades are heavy and very nice in appearance, and they're great for showing people what layered steel looks like. (I polished the blades by hand with Semichrome and that brightened them up a bit.) Anyway, I have a fixed blade (see first pic below) and two folders, one a medium and one very tiny that they called a "mini-Executive." The latter is two and a half inches closed, three and seven eighths inches open. If that's not impressive, it's got genuine stag handles and is a lock-back in design. (Bottom photo.)

BS503D.jpg
BS554D.jpg


pr-Cutlery-Bear_Son_Cutlery_Damascus_Steel_Knife-resized200.jpg
 
I came close to exchanging the Marble's Damascus Bowie ($80) for a Bear Damascus Bowie ($100). Do you happen know where Bear is importing their Damascus blades from? It didn't state they were imported on SMKW and usually they do if it is imported. Nevertheless, I think the word "Damascus" to describe a blade is almost as abused as the word "Bowie". Pattern welded is not Damascus. As for the Sheffield Bowie, I only got it because there is a scene in the movie Saving Private Ryan with one. I really don't know how good a knife it is but it can't be that bad.

http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/MyWebFilms/Oorlog/SavingRyan2.asp
 
Actually in modern day terminology, damascus is pattern welded steel. The other is referred to as wootz. And the people who dispute that need to remember we're talking about a language that is constantly changing, words don't have to same definition forever in a spoken language.
 
Culpeper said:
Do you happen know where Bear is importing their Damascus blades from? It didn't state they were imported on SMKW and usually they do if it is imported.
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Bear & Sons (BearMGC) (as far as I know) obtain their damascus from Alabama Damascus. Most of Bear's knives are made in the U.S.

They might also get it from other places, but I've read/heard that the Alabama
company is their main source.

mike
 
Jared Stenoien said:
Actually in modern day terminology, damascus is pattern welded steel. The other is referred to as wootz. And the people who dispute that need to remember we're talking about a language that is constantly changing, words don't have to same definition forever in a spoken language.
Click to expand...

More like in modern day marketing rather than terminology. The word "change" hasn't changed much though.
 
2brothers said:
Bear & Sons (BearMGC) (as far as I know) obtain their damascus from Alabama Damascus. Most of Bear's knives are made in the U.S.

They might also get it from other places, but I've read/heard that the Alabama
company is their main source.

mike
Click to expand...

Maybe I should have got that Bear Damascus Bowie after all...:o
 
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