Damascus shouldn't be cheap

culpeper- I agree with you this seems a little low (marbles) for good damascus, I have looked at bear damascus also. I assumed they got their steel from a source such as damascus usa. massed produced damascus. but they look ok for the money. getting one in hand to examine like you did, is another story I guess we get what we pay for as the saying goes
 
2brothers said:
This info was posted by Thomas W (moderator & Nat Sales Rep for Kershaw)

A very large customer of theirs(Blue Ridge Knives) asked they use a carbon
damascus steel supplied by Alabama Damascus for the
production of the 1660DAM Leek.

mike
Click to expand...

Here's a pic of the 1160DAM.

damascusleek4.jpg


Kershaw did a nice job with the etch.

More pics here.

Pics of modded 1660DAMs here and here.
 
This thread seems like it could use a little loving. Yes there is modern art in folding, twisting. This one is L6 and O1

knifeart_1689_16373654.jpg


And even wootz was often forged to produce patterns. Then you have similar steels that were not so figuratively fashioned but were a close cousin

aayat6.jpg

Though, one can see natures pattern if you look close enough
wootzex.jpg


Then there is just forge folding because you needed to
NewLance009.jpg


Then one finds nice articles like Serpent In The Sword and some modern takes on that. Some pretty poor
webready_composite.jpg

Others very good
Quartettop.jpg

Btw, the owner of those does cut with them

The reason that a lot of random pattern stuff is cheap is because it's pretty easy to make. I don't know if anyone mentioned rolling mills yet. The stuff coming out of India is probably just fine for utility knife purposes. if one wants real art, well, it costs a bit more. There are some real artists out there. A mosaic American flag bowie comes to mind.
http://www.meiersteel.com/

I think i'd like that Kershaw if they could have kept all the lettering off it. I've one of the A.G.Russell lockbacks in "Damascus" and it has seen a fair amount of use as a weekender. The quince scales are a little fragile for everyday pocket carry, they get dinged up but the blade is just fine. I guess I could scratch it up cutting things better cut with other tools but knife like use hasn't hurt it a bit.

Cheers

GC
 
Larrin said:
Damascus has been the common term for pattern welded steel since at least the 70s. There has always been a group of people saying that the term "damascus" only refers to wootz, and that you should never refer to pattern-welded steel as damascus. Well, once a term is commonly used to refer to something, it is a proper term, whether you like it or not.
Click to expand...
The modern terminology in this area is indeed extremely confusing. That is why, to distinguish between "true" and "untrue" Damascus to use a generic term "patterned crucible steel" that will cover crucible ("true") Damascus, Wootz ans Bulat. Of course, there is also something like pattern-welded Damascus - which should be clearly distinguished from the crucible steel. if interested in this topic, please see also the Wootz thread on this forum.
 
micromike123 said:
The modern terminology in this area is indeed extremely confusing. That is why, to distinguish between "true" and "untrue" Damascus to use a generic term "patterned crucible steel" that will cover crucible ("true") Damascus, Wootz ans Bulat. Of course, there is also something like pattern-welded Damascus - which should be clearly distinguished from the crucible steel. if interested in this topic, please see also the Wootz thread on this forum.
Click to expand...
OK, I'll go read so that I don't post in ignorance of damascus anymore.
 
I've got a Trailmaker in 7160 spring steel (CV) that is a DAMNED FINE KNIFE made in Gladstone, MI. It is my favorite of all my bowies.
 
Marble's Trailmaker? I don't like the chrome pommel. It doesn't match the curtains. Reminds me of a Harley Davidson knockoff. Another goddamn Marble's. I'm never buying another Marble's for as long as I live. This was their reply for their description of their Pakistan Genuine Damascus steel:

Sir,

Damascus steel is processed by layering steel in various configurations to make the blade.
This process enables manufactures to offer many different designs and patterns.

Thank you

----- Original Message -----
From: Culpeper
To: info@marblescutlery.com
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 6:24 PM
Subject: Marble's Damascus


I purchased a Marble's Damascus Bowie MA515. Could you explain the manufacturing process for getting the blade to look like Damascus steel?
Click to expand...

Marble's Trailmaker

yhst-93727123504836_1962_22810673
 
Hmmm... "Pakistani" "genuine" "Damascus"?... The more I live - the more I learn ;). As for the pattern - it can be achieved even without pattern-welding, just by some smart etching with commercially-available acids.
 
rick43t3 said:
culpeper- I agree with you this seems a little low (marbles) for good damascus, I have looked at bear damascus also. I assumed they got their steel from a source such as damascus usa. massed produced damascus. but they look ok for the money. getting one in hand to examine like you did, is another story I guess we get what we pay for as the saying goes
Click to expand...


Well, the experiment continues. I exchanged the Marble's Damascus for a Bear Damascus and the difference is striking. I'm satisfied that you can get descent Damascus steel at a budget price. The one I got has a white bone handle. Hats off to Bear whom is keeping it in the USA. This steel looks no different that what I've seen at shows from your average individual knife maker selling their wares. Bear even throws in a decorated tin box to store the knife.

bcwsb02d
 
The Damascus in the Marbles Line is real and not etched. Some companys put a coating on it just as a preservative. But I assure you its real.
 
Brian-O said:
The Damascus in the Marbles Line is real and not etched. Some companys put a coating on it just as a preservative. But I assure you its real.
Click to expand...

The one I had was very poor. There were places that it was apparently plain steel under the etching or lack thereof. It has to be dipped into something acidic to etch the steel so you can see the folds. It was junk. I sent it back for a refund.
 
My 'Damascus' collection consisted of a cocobolo handled $100 Bear from SMKW - until I added a $25 el cheapo - which was a Pakistani product that was actually delaminating - you could catch the loose laminations with a finger nail - carefully, lest it ride under said nail for an 'interesting, yet very painful, experience. It went back.

I ordered a custom Buck 110 with a SS so called teardrop 'Damascus' - it looks like a topo map of the craters on the moon! Beautiful - and expensive. The striations are neat - like the Leek, more black than steel color. It came in after the Kershaw Damascus Leek. This last weekend found me bidding on Evil-Bay for a new $150 (List - Bear '04 catalog) Bear 597D 5" folder in Stag - it arrived yesterday - for $44 delivered. It's neat - and looks just like the Bowie's blade, just smaller. Neither Bear, as delivered, will shave forearm hair, but will 'saw' through cardboard easily. The Leek's Damascus has more black - and shaves forearm hair with ease.

Interestingly, the spines of all of mine have been polished to the point where it takes my old 8X photo loupe to reveal the layers along said spine. To the unaided eye, it just looks like a polished solid metal! Hint: take a loupe - or strong magnifier to your local knife shop/show to view said 'Damascus' for authenticity. Also, while Flitz/Semichrome is great to polish most blades, it seems to blend the light/dark layering effect. It can be somewhat enhanced with a light oil - I just don't know what oil is best (I'll post a query re that...). I think the Damascus Buck uses, in very limited supply, in those custom 110's may just be SS, while the others are CS. Like the 'real' Marble's blades made in MI, and some customs still came from their as recently as Aug '07, that CS requires protection from oxidation - oil.

Not knowing the lexicon of knife terms - particularly regarding blade steels and 'real' Damascus types, I'll continue in my ignorance and refer to anything remotely resembling 'Damascus' or so-called by a reputable knifemaker as being 'Damascus'. I'd like to see the twisted/forge-welded/hammered 'Damascus from wire rope - that sounds interesting. For now, my massive Bowie, interesting topo-map of the moon, and everyday carry Leek are great. That Bear 597D Stag - it needs it's sheath/holster - a strong belt - and suspenders for said belt. A few minutes on the Spydie 'Sharpmaker' shouldn't hurt, either!

A long-winded Stainz...
 
Some Damascus infor to give.

As far as the BW Customs not being real damascus here is the break down from what I found out.

Genuine Pattern Wielded Damascus
180 to 500 and up Layers
Composition: High Carbon Steel (1084) and mild steel (WS1)
50 to 54 HRC

Thats the word.
Need any info about other companys just let me know...
 
Wootz is a MONO steel and damascus are layers of steel.Wootz is very difficult to make and even more difficult to forge.Only a few can make it here in Europe.
Photo585.jpg

Photo574.jpg

The price for such a knife will be over 2000$ HRC 62
Photo417.jpg

this is handforged damascus bij Salsi grip is elephant ivory preban HRC 59
 
That Damascus with ivory is wonderful work. One would need a license number from fish and game to import it to the US. If then I think it has to be over a century old. What is preban Ivory in Europe?
 
it will be the same reglementation for over the world.My wifes parents lived in Congo since 1920 and had ivory, leopard and other rare items that were then free.After the independence they brougt everything back to Belgium
 
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