Damascus Steels

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Jammer Six

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I assume that there are different types of Damascus steel.

How does one tell one from the other?
 
I have a Parker Edwards knife with a Damascus blade. I've been wondering what types of steel it is composed of. This thread seems like a great place to discuss that.
 
If you want some excellent Damascus steel in an American made knife just check out Ray Rantanen (http://raysknives.netfirms.com/about.htm). I have a few of his Damascus knives and can tell you that they are top notch and perform way above the Pakastani crap you find on ebay. Watch the videos from him and you will be impressed. He is a graduate metallurgist and knows what he is doing.
 
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Jammer Six said:
The phrase "Pakastani crap" is offensive.
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If you find something offensive you can go ahead and report it.

In this case, there are many 'damascus' makers hailing from Pakistan that produce sub-standard blades made with mystery steels and then sell them for cheap on certain websites under the guise of 'hand-made' and 'high quality', when they are indeed crap.
 
+1 KingMC-- perfectly said

to answer the original question, honest damascus makers will tell you at least 3 things: the included steels, the total number of layers, and the hardness after tempering.
 
Ratman79 said:
+1 KingMC-- perfectly said

to answer the original question, honest damascus makers will tell you at least 3 things: the included steels, the total number of layers, and the hardness after tempering.
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How can they actually tell the hardness? If you have three steels mixed into the Damascus, isn't it entirely possible that all three have different hardness since you are using the same tempering and hardening process on three different steels?
 
When I've seen that number indicated, it was usually the hardness of the finished piece as a whole. Like let's say a blade was made from 1095 and 15N20 and the hardness is listed as RC60, for example. I understood that to mean the now-combined steels' hardness as one damascus blade as opposed to either the stand-alone 1095 or stand-alone 15N20.
 
Ratman79 said:
When I've seen that number indicated, it was usually the hardness of the finished piece as a whole. Like let's say a blade was made from 1095 and 15N20 and the hardness is listed as RC60, for example. I understood that to mean the now-combined steels' hardness as one damascus blade as opposed to either the stand-alone 1095 or stand-alone 15N20.
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I think what Ben was saying was "Since the steels that are pattern welded together are dissimilar but go through the same heat treatment, how do you know that both of the steels that comprise the blade are actually the stated hardness?"

Which is kind of a good question now that I think of it.
 
Yes, that's what I meant. Do they have some way of testing each layer individually?

For that matter, each steel has a different process for optimal HT. So when you take a few different steels and pattern weld them, then put those three different steels through the same HT, how can they each get optimal HT?
 
Jammer Six said:
The phrase "Pakastani crap" is offensive.
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Nope. Most of what we see here from Pakistan, especially the "damascus" is crap. The social justice warrior mentality won't carry you far here. If we start seeing quality Pakistani cutlery with honest disclosure of materials etc., they will get a fair shake.
 
Jammer Six said:
I remember now why I prefer goods from overseas.
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Because they're made out of who knows what material?
That's an odd reason to choose a product.

I don't mind where something is made if the manufacturer is up-front about the materials used.
Made in China of 8Cr13MoV steel? Fine.

But mystery steel from Pakistan (or anywhere else), forget it. :thumbsdown:
 
the steels chosen for making pattern welded Damascus are usually those that
respond similarly to hardening and tempering, so the hardness is usually the same
throughout the piece......unless steps are taken to differentially temper.
For Rc testing it's generally best to take an average of several readings regardless of
whether the blade is Damascus or a single type of steel.
 
KingMC said:
You read the list of ingredients.
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Yes, look for the ones high in riboflavin.
Jammer Six said:
The phrase "Pakastani crap" is offensive.
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To you maybe, and you are entitled to your opinion. To me, I find it descriptive and rather accurate in my experience. A large amount of crappy products and knockoffs come from Asia and the middle East. I've seen both good and bad Damascus from Pakistan, though the vast majority bad.

A better way of putting it is "that offends me" rather than acting as if it were fact.

I swear, people these days. It's time to put the big boy panties on and get over it. To me PC stands for politically castrated.
 
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spykez said:
How so? Just want to know why.

I'll share with you why I think it's not offensive. If something is crap, it is crap. If it comes from Pakistan, that makes it Pakistani crap. Likewise if it were American, Chinese, Australian, Indian, whatever.. crap.

Just IMO.
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If it's crap, it's crap. If it's not, it's not. Coming from Pakistan has nothing to do with it.

Crap comes from all over the world, and top quality goods come from all over the world. Apple went to China and came back with high end products. If you went to China and came back with crap, that's on you.

Just like Pakistan.
 
Jammer Six said:
If it's crap, it's crap. If it's not, it's not. Coming from Pakistan has nothing to do with it.

Crap comes from all over the world, and top quality goods come from all over the world. Apple went to China and came back with high end products. If you went to China and came back with crap, that's on you.

Just like Pakistan.
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We're open to seeing some quality cutlery from Pakistan. What can you show us?
 
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