Damascus Steels

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Really? American steels are overpriced?

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but...I will simply say I disagree. Compare two VERY similar steels with the same properties, M390 and CPM 20CV. In Bar form M390 will cost a noticeable amount more than the US made CPM20cv. Now, the argument can be made that M390 must be imported, that BU uses 3rd gen particle tech, and so forth (all adding to the end cost of the raw material); however in practical use I have found that from both a makers and users standpoint, both steels perform the same. In fact I prefer the CPM version because BU still provides it's raw bars with the HIP canister still on the steel, making it a pain in the rear to work with if one does not have a surface grinder.

When it comes down to Damascus I prefer to use Chad Nichol's or Rob Thomas. why? Because I know and respect both makers and they stand behind their respective products. Also Damascus is an Art form, as are the knives that are produced from them. If one is going to be purchasing a piece of edged, functional art, such as a Damascus bladed knife, I would want to use the best possible material available. The Damascus bulk blades from, yes Pakistan, are...garbage. As for the importance of knowing what ingredients are used in a Damascus billet, yes it is important. A piece of unknown Damascus without any knowledge of it's composition is pretty much worthless as a maker does not know what HT procedure to use, Optimal hardness to attain, Carbon/stainless, possible issues with delamination, and the list goes on.
 
I would also like to add that when purchasing bars of known steel from, say Alpha Knife supply, you will notice that many grades are listed on their site, some produced in the US and some not. They sell at the same price for the same grade of steel.
 
madcap_magician said:
There is one Pakistani knifemaker on the boards someplace. I have not seen much from him lately. I was pretty sure he was doing his own work, because he always posted lush WIP threads, but his work had one issue- it was stylistically very similar to a lot of the made-in-Pakistan junk knives that we're all familiar with.

I think he suffered somewhat unfairly from the association.
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That's a shame, but perception can be a huge thing. It affects big companies like Spyderco too since so many nameless china companies make knock offs or very similar looking knives, which suck. Had an old coworker who referred to my spyderco(made in Golden, CO. CPM M4 Sprint run Military lol) as "china crap" as he gladly pulled out his whatever brand $30 Cabela's knife which was made in china. haha

I can only imagine being a small knifemaker and trying it there. Though maybe going for something very different to the "pakistani crap" would've helped
 
Jammer Six said:
Only to you, and folks like you. To the rest of us, it's unidentified, and a useless data point. (You'll miss that.)
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Since you don't know anything about me except my cartoon forum avatar and my posts here, I'll assume "folks like you" means others with cartoon avatars and posts expressing opinions different from yours.

That being the case, since you take exception to my comments about Pakistani knives and yet posted your own "useless data point" about American steel, what about the countless posts about Chinese knives? Coming from a country with an established poor track record concerning intellectual property rights and/or material specifications, knives produced in China with supposedly original designs and/or of premium materials are often subjected to greater scrutiny than those from established brands in countries more historically known as knife producers. Even now, with proven workmanship from brands like Reate, Kizer, WE and others, you still have the clone/copy manufacturers like Ganzo or name brands selling those copies (Boker Magnum, anyone?) for pennies on the dollar. There are still plenty of valid reasons to be skeptical of knives made in China, especially at lower price points. It's not opinion, it's established fact, as is a history of truly sub-par workmanship and materials - and misleading marketing techniques - associated with knives made in Pakistan. The added fact that many of these are presented as being made in Europe, Canada or the US for the very reason that Pakistan-made knives are poorly regarded further illustrates that there is plenty of truth behind these useless data points.
 
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Inazone said:
Since you don't know anything about me except my cartoon forum avatar and my posts here, I'll assume "folks like you" means others with cartoon avatars and posts expressing opinions different from yours.
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Nope. I think you deliberately misinterpreted that because you didn't understand it or don't want to understand it.
 
Jammer Six said:
Nope. I think you deliberately misinterpreted that because you didn't understand it or don't want to understand it.
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Or maybe he just has a sense of humor, and at the same time is smarter than to be dragged into a grouping of people that you created based on one point of view that he has expressed. He was reacting with humor, which as I see it, was a very high road way to react in the situation you've created....
 
Jammer Six said:
Nope. I think you deliberately misinterpreted that because you didn't understand it or don't want to understand it.
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True -- it can be hard to understand a post when it so breathlessly mixes "vaguely insulting" with "dumb" and "hypocritical."
 
19-3ben said:
Or maybe he just has a sense of humor, and at the same time is smarter than to be dragged into a grouping of people that you created based on one point of view that he has expressed. He was reacting with humor, which as I see it, was a very high road way to react in the situation you've created....
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Ah, I see. So the thing to do is ignore him or laugh at him. :) Okay, thanks.
 
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