Dan Koster for the bad.

[bigcountry1315]

Because I have checked on buying from Koster knives in the past, It was when I saw his wait and unresponsiveness to customers who already paid him. That was when I decided I wanted nothing to do with him or his knives. There are to many good makers that have great communication and want to make the customer happy. I have bought from Scott Gossman ,Jeremey Horton.Bill Siegle and Daniel Fairley all with tremendous communication and the knives done when they said they would be. The communication has been so great that a lot of these makers I now consider my friends. Fair honest business men. That is why I get pissed when someone orders from a maker and then disappears on them.That monster nessie from Chris is awesome looking.This is just my 2 cents.On a side note all of the knives I have bought I know I can count my life on, unlike a monster nessie having a huge chip out of the edge from chopping a branch.Come on what is a 1/4 inch knife meant to do? Or an edge chipping from trying to scrape candy out of the bottom of a jar, lets get real.Look up the story of a guy using a Gossman PSK to hammer through a trap chain to save his life! Then Scott repaired the small chip even though he did not have to. That is what customer service is about!

 

[Daniel Koster]

1. You have stated on multiple occasions in the past to the OP of this thread that he would receive his knives before now. Why should we believe you today when you lied yesterday?

2. Even if the knives are in fact ready and get sent out today, how does that correct your dragging your heals on this transaction yesterday, the day before, the day before that, etc., etc.?

3. As a person who makes his living from his own business, a living which helps to feed your family and keep a roof over their heads, how many dissatisfied customers would you like?

I'll keep an eye out for the answers.

1 - the knives for the OP went out Friday. Want a Delivery Confirmation number? email John and ask him for it.
2 - I have too much work and am only in the shop part time. I'm trying to correct my business model and am doing my best.
3 - It is indeed disheartening to see dissatisfied customers - much of the enjoyment and satisfaction from making knives comes from connecting with customers.



I'm not interested in stirring the pot here, and have my own reasons for running my business the way I do. If anyone wants to have an open discussion about it, I welcome it on my forum. Negative comments won't be deleted or edited. I do listen to feedback.

The reason I posted the comment to the moderators in my first post is simple: A few posts above mine there was bashing on knifemakers about taking deposits. Not only do I no longer take deposits, and this has nothing to do with the *trade* (no money involved) that John and I transacted.....and it feels to me like anyone with a gripe is welcome to jump in and fan the flames. I can take the heat. I made a mistake with John and am clearly being hung out to dry about it. I corrected it and time will tell.


I'd like to post a few thoughts:

1 - in all the links that have been brought-up/reposted, I have never stolen anyone's money or refused to resolve the matter. I've resolved every complaint that has come to my attention. It is true that my turnaround time is slow, and I'm working on making that better...but I'm no scammer or thief.

2 - I put as much information about my work, my schedule, my progress as possible "out there" on the internet for all to see. Perhaps that is my downfall. Maybe I should be like other custom knifemakers where I take your name, add you to my list and you don't hear from me for 6-12 months until I start your knife. I've built my business around being able to let customers know the progress when I make progress. If this means I have a few kinks along the way, then I guess that's the price to pay.

3 - thanks to those who have offered honest suggestions on how to improve my process. I am learning every day and appreciate knowing how I can make things better.

4 - I sincerely apologize to anyone who has been offended by me, my work, my methods, my process, my communication issues or anything else.



John - will you post when you get the knives?


Dan

 

[Danbo]

Dan, I think you'll be fine, as long as you improve your communications with your customers. Nobody likes to be left out in the dark.

 

[l2lku2]

Dan

As someone with quite a few of your knives, I will offer a suggestion.

Do away with the lists completely.

I can understand having lists to manage deposits, or customer specific custom orders, neither of which you do anymore. I can also understand having a list to ensure that there will be sufficient demand for a knife before making it.

However, you are making production runs in batches, not custom orders. Your models are familiar and the quality of your knives are not in question so I do not think there will be a lack of demand. Just make them in batches as you do now and sell them when they are done. As things stand now it is first come first serve to those who make it to the list first. Selling them when they are done will be first come first serve to those who buy them first without all the problems of missed expectations.

I see no advantages to you of having lists. I see only negatives.

Not taking deposits was a positive change but what you may not have considered is that the person on the list still has a commitment to you. They have to then set that money aside to be available for when you finish their knives. Without knowing when that time will come, it messes with peoples budgeting when they have to keep that money set aside for extended periods.

Without the list of people waiting, you will also have the benefit of being able to prioritize and deal with customer issues first, as it should be. Regardless of how good your knives are, if people perceive that they will not have issues resolved in a timely manner, demand for your knives will plummet, and people will not buy from you or the secondary market. It is up to you to decide whether you feel any obligation, not only to your future customers, but also to protect the value of the knives already in the hands of customers.

I know you are doing this part-time but I would suggest simple time management - set time aside every morning and evening to check emails and voice-mails and respond to them promptly.

I hope my suggestions do not come across as condescending because they are really simple. Perhaps it is more complicated than I realize. I just hope that you can address all these issues so you can prosper, have a loyal client base and over time hopefully win back the trust of some of those that are not happy.

 

[naccibobacci]

The very morning after I posted this greviance Koster called me. He stated that he understood full well why I did what I did, that he took full responsibility for his actions and he didn't make any excuses. He told me that he was going to finish my knives and ship them that day and that he would email me a tracking # that night. That night I received a telephone call from Koster saying the knives were done and shipped, that if there was anything else he could do just let him know and that again he apologized for the delays. Moments later I recieved an email that included a picture of the two completed Bushmasters as well as a tracking #.

Three days later the knives arrived. Only one of the Bushmasters had it's distinctive tappered tang. Koster explained in his last telephope call that he wanted to ship the knives to me that day and to put the tapered tang on the second Bushmaster would have delayed shipment for days if not weeks. Koster did offer me a free Woodlore to make up for all that led up to this thread and the fact that the second Bushmaster did not have a tapered tang, I declined the offer. Fit and finish on both knives are excellent.

Koster and my business deal is done, we are even. I stand by everything I wrote. There is more that I could say but I won't, my gut tells me let it lie from here. Everyone will have to make up there own mind about Koster, Nacci.

 

[SleepyBadger]

Dan

As someone with quite a few of your knives, I will offer a suggestion.

Do away with the lists completely.

I can understand having lists to manage deposits, or customer specific custom orders, neither of which you do anymore. I can also understand having a list to ensure that there will be sufficient demand for a knife before making it.

However, you are making production runs in batches, not custom orders. Your models are familiar and the quality of your knives are not in question so I do not think there will be a lack of demand. Just make them in batches as you do now and sell them when they are done. As things stand now it is first come first serve to those who make it to the list first. Selling them when they are done will be first come first serve to those who buy them first without all the problems of missed expectations.

I see no advantages to you of having lists. I see only negatives.

Not taking deposits was a positive change but what you may not have considered is that the person on the list still has a commitment to you. They have to then set that money aside to be available for when you finish their knives. Without knowing when that time will come, it messes with peoples budgeting when they have to keep that money set aside for extended periods.

Without the list of people waiting, you will also have the benefit of being able to prioritize and deal with customer issues first, as it should be. Regardless of how good your knives are, if people perceive that they will not have issues resolved in a timely manner, demand for your knives will plummet, and people will not buy from you or the secondary market. It is up to you to decide whether you feel any obligation, not only to your future customers, but also to protect the value of the knives already in the hands of customers.

I know you are doing this part-time but I would suggest simple time management - set time aside every morning and evening to check emails and voice-mails and respond to them promptly.

I hope my suggestions do not come across as condescending because they are really simple. Perhaps it is more complicated than I realize. I just hope that you can address all these issues so you can prosper, have a loyal client base and over time hopefully win back the trust of some of those that are not happy.

+1
glad you got your knives Nacci

 

[Cutshaw]

Dan

As someone with quite a few of your knives, I will offer a suggestion.

Do away with the lists completely.

I can understand having lists to manage deposits, or customer specific custom orders, neither of which you do anymore. I can also understand having a list to ensure that there will be sufficient demand for a knife before making it.

However, you are making production runs in batches, not custom orders. Your models are familiar and the quality of your knives are not in question so I do not think there will be a lack of demand. Just make them in batches as you do now and sell them when they are done. As things stand now it is first come first serve to those who make it to the list first. Selling them when they are done will be first come first serve to those who buy them first without all the problems of missed expectations.

I see no advantages to you of having lists. I see only negatives.

Not taking deposits was a positive change but what you may not have considered is that the person on the list still has a commitment to you. They have to then set that money aside to be available for when you finish their knives. Without knowing when that time will come, it messes with peoples budgeting when they have to keep that money set aside for extended periods.

Without the list of people waiting, you will also have the benefit of being able to prioritize and deal with customer issues first, as it should be. Regardless of how good your knives are, if people perceive that they will not have issues resolved in a timely manner, demand for your knives will plummet, and people will not buy from you or the secondary market. It is up to you to decide whether you feel any obligation, not only to your future customers, but also to protect the value of the knives already in the hands of customers.

I know you are doing this part-time but I would suggest simple time management - set time aside every morning and evening to check emails and voice-mails and respond to them promptly.

I hope my suggestions do not come across as condescending because they are really simple. Perhaps it is more complicated than I realize. I just hope that you can address all these issues so you can prosper, have a loyal client base and over time hopefully win back the trust of some of those that are not happy.

I've watched this thread with interest but avoided posting to avoid any appearance of moderate-bashing.

I had a very similar experience with a prepay deposit over an extended period, request for refund, ensuing lack-of-communication problems and missed commitments for when the refund would be sent. I walked away with a very poor frame of mind.

I'm only posting now since l2lku2 illustrated such a concise, "golden key" to fixing these issues. Not only do you seem to be interested in constructive criticism but also to amending business practices in such a way that first-time customers actually remain customers and aren't left with an ugly memory of the experience.

l2lku2's narrative was outstanding. You have my sincerest wishes for positive changes.

 

[synthesist]

Shaking my head here.....................

Koster explained in his last telephone call that he wanted to ship the knives to me that day and to put the tapered tang on the second Bushmaster would have delayed shipment for days if not weeks.

That sounds like nonsense. Perhaps he should have (after all the time that's passed already, DROPPED EVERYTHING ELSE and made this 100% right. But noooooooooooooooooo Mr. Koster couldn't be bothered doing that to satisfy a SERIOUSLY hacked off customer.

I think, maybe, this thread got ol' Dan's attention though. Suddenly people are pulling orders, stepping up, speaking up and his chickens have come home to roost after years of getting away with his BS and excuse. While I wouldn't call him a thief I do question his business ethics and couldn't care less about his PERSONAL problems (no money, truck broken down, compressor on the fritz etc..........) since it's obvious that he couldn't care less about his customer's issues..................

Dan may make a decent knife, I don't own any and don't wanna. The point of threads like this is to inform the WORLD at large about how someone acts when they think they can get away with it. Dan's demons are HIS demons, there are lots of knifemakers on here who manage to keep their "personal" issues hidden from their customers and reap the benefit of good feedback in the process.

Syn

 

[sheathmaker]

Koster and my business deal is done, we are even. I stand by everything I wrote. There is more that I could say but I won't, my gut tells me let it lie from here. Everyone will have to make up there own mind about Koster, Nacci.

I'm glad for you that you are "even",.......but there seems to be a pretty big gap between "even" and "satisfied". In your case I think your gut is right. Can't get much mileage out of a dead horse, but you did a service with your posts I think.:thumbup:

Paul

 

[Balldboy]

OP,
Glad you have reached closure.
I would still buy a Koster Nessy or Monster Nessy but only in the secondary market.
I just haven't got the patience of the OP.
YMMV,
Pete

 

[midnight flyer]

I'm glad for you that you are "even",.......but there seems to be a pretty big gap between "even" and "satisfied". In your case I think your gut is right. Can't get much mileage out of a dead horse, but you did a service with your posts I think.:thumbup:

Paul

WELL SAID, Sir. Well said.

As a business owner, I would absolutely cringe at the need for a client to take my deficiencies public before I would get on the responsibility of keeping my word.

That is absolutely what has happened here, one more time.

I guess in the last 30 years I have just grown too sensitive about protecting my reputation.

Robert

 

[Woods Creeper]

Something I had in my signature line for years on my black powder forum ...
"A man's actions speak louder than words."
really hope the man does change ...
for his own sake.

 

[dan-g]

Dan

As someone with quite a few of your knives, I will offer a suggestion.

Do away with the lists completely.

I can understand having lists to manage deposits, or customer specific custom orders, neither of which you do anymore. I can also understand having a list to ensure that there will be sufficient demand for a knife before making it.

However, you are making production runs in batches, not custom orders. Your models are familiar and the quality of your knives are not in question so I do not think there will be a lack of demand. Just make them in batches as you do now and sell them when they are done. As things stand now it is first come first serve to those who make it to the list first. Selling them when they are done will be first come first serve to those who buy them first without all the problems of missed expectations.

I see no advantages to you of having lists. I see only negatives.

Not taking deposits was a positive change but what you may not have considered is that the person on the list still has a commitment to you. They have to then set that money aside to be available for when you finish their knives. Without knowing when that time will come, it messes with peoples budgeting when they have to keep that money set aside for extended periods.

Without the list of people waiting, you will also have the benefit of being able to prioritize and deal with customer issues first, as it should be. Regardless of how good your knives are, if people perceive that they will not have issues resolved in a timely manner, demand for your knives will plummet, and people will not buy from you or the secondary market. It is up to you to decide whether you feel any obligation, not only to your future customers, but also to protect the value of the knives already in the hands of customers.

I know you are doing this part-time but I would suggest simple time management - set time aside every morning and evening to check emails and voice-mails and respond to them promptly.

I hope my suggestions do not come across as condescending because they are really simple. Perhaps it is more complicated than I realize. I just hope that you can address all these issues so you can prosper, have a loyal client base and over time hopefully win back the trust of some of those that are not happy.

I could seriously see this maneuver getting Koster knives a folowing like Busse. You could even have a Koster go button when your knives are done. Simply the best suggestion ive heard.

 

[Jmboz]

I've been waiting for my already paid for Koster MUCK for over a year and a half. A month ago I received an email from Dan saying it's nearly done, asking to pay the full amount - which I've done. So, in the end if all goes well, my patience will have something to show for its effort.

When I decided to be put on the run list, I knew it was going to be a while to be completed. I estimated it would probably take between a year or two as with a lot of knife makers, and I have other knives I can use while I wait.

My point is that I had no misconception that this knife was going to be done quickly, I knew Dan was a part-time knife-maker and I appreciate the perodic postings that Dan gives on his forum/lists about the status of the knives. Dan posted that there was a delay in getting the 3V steel and the sheaths made from JRE. Anyone who is in business will understand that sometimes there are delays from suppliers, and these were communicated by Dan.

In my mind, so long as a maker isn't trying to scam me out of my money, the knife will be done when it's done. You can't rush quality, and if someone needs a knife right now, then they need to buy a factory one already made and use it until their custom is done. It's better for the knife-maker to take his time and do the job right then to rush through the project and send me poor quality knife.

As to the communication issues, I think that it's important for any business to communicate with their costumers within a reasonable amount of time. The emails that I have sent Dan have been replied to at least within 3 days - and since I live in Australia, thats fine for me.

This is just my two cents worth.

 

[wolfmann601]

A two year wait for a knife???

Some of the world's finest makers have a shorter wait when you make their "list" and only take money when it is deliivery time.

I suppose if the maker says "pay me in full and I will deliver in two years or so" and you do you must really, really want that knife!!!!

 

[Jmboz]

Actually, I only had to pay a deposit of $85.00.

The second point is I was really attracted to the M.U.C.K knife design and that it's made in CPM3V.

I've not seen one like it before, but then again I really didn't really look any deeper with other knife-makers and their models.

I figured if people are waiting 5 years for a Randall, 1 to 2 years from a part-time knife-maker was reasonable - and I do have other knives to play with.

I think the problem is that people want their 'stuff" they paid for yesterday. Patience is a bygone virtue these days.

I wonder what Scagel or some of the other old-time knife makers would do if pressured by demanding customers?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I envision many would have chase their customers out of their workshops with a big heavy stick swearing and cussing at them along the way.

Then making them wait even longer for their knife.

But of course that's only a guess.

<S>

 

[JTR357]

I wouldn't mind so much if Dan was upfront about the wait.I paid in January thinking(from what he said) it would be complete in May/June of the same year.If he would've said from the start "It's going to take a couple of years,maybe more",I never would have gotten in on it.

Good post l2lku2:thumbup:

 

[geargeek]

I ordered once from Dan, and the knife did arrive in roughly the estimated time frame (plus a couple months). I didn't care since I was in no rush anyway. I do think that it is a good idea to take these estimates as approximate since Dan is obviously a very busy guy.... Because of this the other Koster knives I have purchased have all been either from retail outlets or other forum members, no waiting needed; and it sounds like doing large orders for KSF, etc. is the direction he is taking his business. He does make excellent knives I must add...

 

[wolfmann601]

Comparing Scagel here is apples to oranges, it is like comparing a Rookie to a Hall of Famer

But my guess is that if Scagel, Moran, or one of the legends said "your knife is almost ready" it WAS almost ready!!

I hope Dan grows from this beating and makes some of the changes suggested by others. I have never been in the knife business, or in any business for that matter so I have no clue how to deal with some of the issues. The biggest issue being the wait time, if you tell customers it will take 5 years and deliver in 2 they will be happy and tell the world that the man pumps out knives at an amazing rate and always delivers on time or better!!!

 

[vvk]

Off topic: Robino, Those nessies are fantastic and I love the speer 38 cases. With a two week turnaround that really is hard to beat.

ON TOPIC, Ive only received one of Dans knives and that was because I bought someones spot who was bailing out of a deal due to the horrific wait. Ive jumped off of one list for a monster nessie and am now on another list for a 3v nessie. Dans wait times are long and what makes them worse is him stating an unrealistic completion date. He seems to be learning though and the list im on now has no completion date. I think people would be fine if we knew up front that the wait times are four times longer than posted. He is certainly not a crook by any means, he just reminds me of my old inexperienced contractor self. I used to quote clients the exact completion time of a project and when things went long, i would have to deal with the flack. Now any quote I give is doubled or has a least a week buffer so nobody has any unrealistic expectations. Dans knives are quite nice and Im a rare person who can wait. By reading multiple post of people jumping off wait list for Dan, I soon figured out that his lead time was a minimum of double his stated time, (for some of his more exotic smaller runs it can get near 3x).

I really like his 3v work and have figured out Im waiting probably 20months for it but when I first jumped on one of his list and he went way past completion date I was pissed. Now I know what im in for so im not worried, (I cant state enough how nice it would have been to know this from the start though). Im sure many of you think this attitude is stupid but im just sharing my experience and how ive come to terms with Kosters methods.

He-he I am in the same 3v Nessie list I agree with much of what you said. I like a lot the 2 knives I got over time from Dan - it seems nobody, so far, has complained about Koster's knives quality just the unrealistic time-frame and issues with his business model. To address some of the points raised so far based on my experience.

Dan
Seems honest (so far have not heard of him NOT fulfilling order or NOT providing refund admittedly he takes his time with both and have to be chased, reminded etc. Furthermore, sometimes his inexperience as a businessmen puts him in troubles when he promises more than what he can realistically deliver. I noticed that recently he stopped taking deposits and is generally trying to be more realistic with the deadlines

3V
To be honest with you guys - there are relatively few makers that are experienced with 3V and the prices that Dan charges is very competitive. Recently, I got tired of waiting for the Nessie so I ordered a 3V knife from Ban Tang (promised to do it in around 4 months) and the price is practically double of what Dan is charging for a similar blade so the tradeoff of him being "slow" is that he has good prices and has become very experienced with 3V.

waiting
Nobody can or is willing to wait - I personally prefer to pay more but get the job done ASAP but on the other hand Dan's long wait saves me money as I am using the following brain hack: I am convincing myself that I should not buy a another new knife until the one that Dan is working on is ready

warranty
I have no illusions about warranty - Koster is no Busse if it breaks it breaks or at best it may take an year or more until you get service. That is the unfortunate side effect of dealing with micro enterprise (one man shop) and as much as I want it to be otherwise this is the nature of the small business that can hardly be changed despite the best intention.

It would be interested to hear who do you guys think can offer better service in 3V knives?