DARK OPS Pics. PLEASE!!!!!

Why single them out, however, when others are doing the same thing to some degree both in the custom and production arena?
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That's easy; because Dark Ops is soooooooo much worse than any of the others. Dark Ops' advertising is that "over the top" kind of bad, that only an irrational mall ninja would fall for.

At least MOD has "defense" in its name. Dark Ops is more like "Masters of Offense".

And trying to compare Dark Ops to Buck....... That's laughable. Is there something deadly about fire, search & rescue, and first responders that I didn't know? Do they imply blood spray or deanimation? NOT!!! Much the opposite. Those guys are trying to save lives, not take them.

I'm sorry Brownie, but somebody should have stuck a fork in you last week. You're done making anything close to valid points. You want those upgraded features on an ER knife bad enough that you're willing to overlook any manner of sin on Dark-Ops part, and also willing to attempt to defame good companies like Buck in the process.
 
See, the key word in your last post is "most", that infers "not all", which then begs the question why nobody has jumped on their ars's about doing the same thing in their advertising to whatever degree.

Seems through this thread, DOK has become the poster child for voicing disdain for such actions as if they were the only ones to ever ad their wares that way.

Not defaming Buck at all, stating facts as they were written by their own ad copy agents as well as others. If thats defaming them, perhaps someone ought to write Buck about their ad copy.

I don't see anywhere that DOK is advertising specifically to citizens [ though they'll buy them ]anymore than Buck is advertising theirs to police/fire/mil types and not ordinary citizens [ who buy them ].

Now we know there are others making the same mistakes as well don't we?

Brownie
 
Now we know there are others making the same mistakes as well.
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Sorry, but attempting to discredit others will not lend credibility to Dark-Ops.
 
Buzzbait:

I'm not lending credibility to DOK, I'm stating others ads are designed to appeal to mil types, spec ops types, police/ etc, yet the citizens are readily buying them as well.

If you ad to mil and police specifically, yet an ordinary citizen can, and does carry them daily throughout the US, do we then have this catch 22 where if you were to use the knife to defend yourself a case could be made that it was not designed for use by ordinary citizens who should not be allowed to buy, let alone use them?

After all is said and done, anything advertised as "tactical", designed for military use may harm the industry if ordinary citizens are allowed to purchase and carry these evil weapons. Why offer a knife made only with certain job descriptions in mind?

ER's were designed to be used by mil types specifically in their ads, DOK has done the same thing but in an offensive manner to many here. If you didn't like ER's, you probably won't like DOK's either. They are marketed to spec ops, mil types, that does not in any way keep the general public from buying them does it?

Maybe we should change all advertising to negate the word "tactical". Ordinary citizens do not for the msot part involve themselves in tactical scenarios where these weapons would be used.

Simantics, playing on words, nothing changes except the advertising. If you have no need to be involved tactically in others lives, you then do not have a reason to carry equipment specifically designed for the "tactical" community do you? The DA may use that against you, better get rid of those tactical folders folks.

The Strider SMF and some of their straight blades are designed for the mil types specifically, want to guess how many are in ordinary citizens hands at this time being carried daily across the US and abroad? Yes, I know, not quite the same, but then anything with Mil or intent by design in it's name could be deemed unnecessary for civilians to own no? The public keeps buying them when they were designed for someone else.

I can see the sheeple on the jury now. You mean he purchased and carried a knife specifically designed to be used by the military? That doesn't sound like something I want everyone to be able to purchase, lets ban everything tactical or made with mil types in mind, hell citizens may get their hands on them and then where would we be?

And this ad this morning right here on bladeforums "Ok, here is one I made just for the Blade Show and the right owner did not show up to take her home. She has very little, if any utility purpose, but I promise it will not only tickle some ribs, but move them out of the way as needed "

Oh oh, better jump on this one fellas. Makes the point nicely I think. Better be careful or some citizen may buy it, use it for it's intended purpose and give us all a bad name unnecesaarily hey?


Brownie
 
Wow. You are so far off base. I have no problem with some company saying that their knife was designed for Military or LEO use. It doesn't bother me one bit, as it says basically nothing to me. I do have a problem with a company advertising imperviousness to Al Qaeda bodily fluids, strategically placed blood grooves, and covert deanimation activities. There's a big difference between tastefully done advertising and outright sensationalism.
 
Buzz,

I couldn't agree more with that last statement of yours.

What bothers one will not be an issue with another. Thats the way the system works, you will never please all the people all the time. You will offend someone somewhere about something eventually one day with your advertising no matter what you write.

I'm sure I could find many liberals who would look at an ad and determine they did not believe anything "tactical" or made with the military in mind needs to be carried in public by ordinary citizens. After all, a knife is used only for daily chores and normal cutting tasks by ordinary citizens and never considered as a defensive/offensive weapon right? Wrong, and we all know it. Some however keep that facade up in an attempt to convince the sheeple or perhaps even themselves that they have no intention of using it to defend themselves with. Ya, right again?

I make no bones about carrying a knife with the intent to defend myself one day if necessary, others shudder at the thought it's even spoken, it may get these knives banned from purchasing them or being able to publicly carry them in the future.

I use an SAK to cut the boxes and do the mundane chores, I carry a few "tacticals" for defensive purposes and not for mundane daily chores, plain and simple facts of life. If that scares people to hear it, see it, too bad.

Brownie
 
The ad I saw for Dark Ops in Blade looked more like it belonged in Soldier of Fortune, or one of those cheesy detective mags. What tripe!

Advertising like that can create problems. Knife control advocates would have a hey day with the Dark Ops adverts. Whoever came up with that ad campaign needs to be bitch slapped.
 
Brownie:

Even if you're carrying a knife with the slightest idea that you may have to use it to defend yourself, knives shouldn't be advertised for the sole purpose. Civilian use is utility, even if a knife is something to turn to in an attack. I carry a Victorinox Soldier, despite it's name, if I ever tried to defend myself with it I'd probably get cut very badly. When purchasing a knife, I don't think "Could I defend myself with this?" so all of the mall ninja BS turns me off. If I hear that a knife is practical and a good value (Soldier), that is what will be my selling point. Any assaualt (no pun intended) of tactical advertising only sensationalizes and makes it look like that's all we think about. If you want to carry a knife to protect yourself, that's your choice. I don't want to see knife control go any further just because a maker (and I use the term "maker" very loosely, "slight modifier" might be more accurate) decided to cater to those wanting to defend themselves, and what's more, doing so under the guise of being a military knife shop. I doubt many LEOs and Mil-types are going to spend a lot for a knife that isn't going to be their main weapon.
 
NeedleRemorse:"I doubt many LEOs and Mil-types are going to spend a lot for a knife that isn't going to be their main weapon."

Actually, Striders, Busse's and a few more makers high dollar folders are marketed, sold, and carried in combat by quite a few of the mil types all over the world.

See the USN forum and rerad through some of those posts. Many mil types carry big dollar folders whenthey are deemed ruggged enough to survive that sort of environment.

"Any assaualt (no pun intended) of tactical advertising only sensationalizes and makes it look like that's all we think about"

Agreed

"I don't want to see knife control go any further just because a maker (and I use the term "maker" very loosely, "slight modifier" might be more accurate) decided to cater to those wanting to defend themselves, and what's more, doing so under the guise of being a military knife shop. I doubt many LEOs and Mil-types are going to spend a lot for a knife that isn't going to be their main weapon."

The key words here are "just" because a maker. Knife control/regulations passed in the future will probably not be due to one maker and one product, but by the conduct of people using knives in crimes [ which falls in line with kneejerk legislation in the past from the general publics perception that ALL knives are bad ] and the idea that no one really needs a knife to defend themselves with.

If it were that easy for the sheeple/liberals to pass restrictions based on advertising by one maker, we would surely not even have tactical knives being produced today which are available generally to the public at large.

Brownie
 
Brownie - You are correct about people in general. The very concept of self defense is quite alien to modern day Americans. Most cannot even envision defending themselves from somebody else. People would prefer to believe that "it won't happen to them", and if it does... law enforcement will protect me. Reality is entirely different of course.

Today's attitude is to remove all armaments in hopes that removing the tool will remove greed and hatred. Rational thinking people know that taking away a tactical knife or gun will not wipe out greed or hatred, but people generally are not rational about this subject. All they know is that they don't want to be afraid anymore, and if there is a way to accomplish this through a mere lack of freedom, no matter how impossible or misguided that possibility may be, they are willing to live with that.

And the only reason they think the removal of knives and guns could ever accomplish this task is because the television tells them that these are the two tools of evil men. Reality would tell them that kitchen knives and lead pipes are equally as deadly, but television and movies are not reality. If you see it enough on the boob tube, you will sooner of later adopt what you see as your own little reality. It's only natural.

But from my perspective, Dark-Ops has shown terrible judgment in their ad campaign. They have taken those imagined realities of Hollywood we strive so hard to break, and used them against us. This is not a minor quibble of somebody possibly not liking what they read. This is a matter of betrayal. They have betrayed those of us who fight to keep our rights by playing right into the hands of those who wish to take away our freedoms, in exactly the manner those people want it served to them; on a silver platter.
 
Buzzbait"

Agreed. More discretion should be used by all, and particularly DOK in this instance.

Brownie
 
For perspective on the "improvement" issue, if someone else, say SOG took one of the Dark Ops knives and "improved" it with a few changes resulting in similar comparision to the above, would that also be perfectly fine.

Regardless of how Frank came into the ideas for the improvements, working for a company doesn't just give you the right to take their designs and run with them in such a manner. Just consider how customer makers would respond to an apprentice doing the same, especially when the new knives are in direct competition.

The copy is also nothing similar to the tactical ads of Buck, etc., no one would complain if the DO ads were strongly tactical in nature meaning promoting use to military, etc., but it is the specific language which is the issue.

-Cliff
 
setting the issues of blatantly stealing ER's design for a moment, how does anyone know for sure that DOK is "improving" the knife? no one has used it, no one has even seen it from what I read. where does the idea of "improvement" come from? as for the photos, "photochopped" sure comes to mind.
 
Cliff Stamp:

I don't have a problem with the scenario of SOG upgrading/improving an ER or DOK knife. However, others seem to from the posts.

The ads being over the top has not been disputed.

Horizon_Seeker: I listed the changes, they are there for you to see from their website. Sure, it could be photocropped, but thats not the information I have from Frank, and he has not been proven a liar to me or anyone else here yet, so why would I question his statements until such time?

Aren't all knives an upgrade of a design used by our ancestors? It has a point, an edge, a handle to hold onto. Seems our ancestors had something going then and we have only "improved" upon the basic design from that time forward.

Accusing/suggesting that someone was photocropping with no evidence to support that statement seems "over the top" as well. If you haven't talked to Frank, haven't handled, seen or used an ER, I'll presume you would have to "guess" what the DOK knife may actually look like and how it may handle with the upgraded/changed features.

As to the legality of all thats transpiring or could transpire in the future where DOK and ER are concerned, I'll leave that to the attys: if an when one chooses to take issues to legal representation within the courts here and Italy. In the meantime, I'll have a rugged folder that has features I wanted [ and some I did not think of ] on my hip clipped to the waistband.

It suits my needs for a folding crowbar perfectly and until such time as I find something more stout than the ER's or hopefully the DOK's, I'll continue to carry them. I've seen what an ER MPC can go through, how it holds up to real world abuse and look forward to carrying the DOK as well with the possibility of running into an extreme survival situation the main theme and thought process.

I may not like the DOK Strato at all with the new features. I'll go back to ER's line then. Otherwise, I have a folder that has the strength of most straight blades, conceals easily and can be carried comfortably all day everyday knowing in a worst case scenario, I have the best possible chance of extricating myself from whatever.

"Be prepared", ya, thats the idea. Are the ER's the most ergonomic, asthetically pleasing knives I own? Of course not, they are actually a little ugly to me. I didn't buy the ER line for it's being pretty, or popular, I bought it with the idea it would be one of the better rugged folders on the market, and as it turns out, I was right from real world testing by a well driller who has abused the snot out of that MPC.

If I wanted pretty, I'd buy something else. If I want rugged to the extreme, I'll take an ER or DOK [ hopefully as the verdict is out until I get it in my hands obviously ].

Brownie
 
Buzzbait, Checking again if you are making those Cedar Hiking Sticks once more. Last time I asked you were busy with anew hosue. Afriend that I went to Afghanistan with is due back from Iraq in early August and I want to get him one. Please let me know ASAP as I will be off the air at 0800 (PST) 8 July till sometime on 9 or 10 July. Thanks.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
....Whoever came up with that ad campaign needs to be bitch slapped.
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And I've got a bitch they can borrow! :D

(Seriously, I passed over that ad the first few times because I thought it was for a new video game!)

:rolleyes:
 
I have no idea what went wrong for these poor folks at Bladeshow.

I had a boss many years ago who really was a former US Special Forces soldier. He had two favorite saying, "**** better not happen!" and "Whatever can go wrong... we should be prepared to deal with."

Can you imagine a team of Navy SEALs arriving on beachhead:

"Quick, give me the ammo!"

"Ammo? You've got the ammo."

"Don't !#@$ with me. I distinctly told you to bring the ammo."

"I thought you were bringing the ammo."

"Hunter, got any ammo?"

"I thought you were bringing it."

"Dogbreath, tell me you've got ammo?"

"I thought hunter had it."

No! When something is that important, they double, tripple, quadruple check it.

Now imagine a knife company arriving at a major tradeshow for their huge grand public introduction with.... no knives!

When something is that important, you double, tripple, quadruple check it.



I've never worked for a knive company. But I've worked in other industries. I can tell you that the tradeshow booth stuff gets shipped weeks ahead of the show so that if there is a shipping problem, you have time to deal with it.

In cities like Atlanta, there are companies that do nothing but receive and deal with tradeshow shipments. If you're exhibiting at Bladeshow in Atlanta, you can send your stuff to Atlanta Tradeshow Services (or whatever the company's name is). They will confirm for you that it has all arrived. They will check it for shipping damage. They will store it until the show. They will deliver it to you at the show. They will take the crates and containers back to their warehouse (have you ever wondered where the crates for all of the stuff that goes into larger tradeshow booths go during the show? You can't stash them under the table.) they'll rent you plants and other stuff like that, arrange flowers if you want, all that sort of stuff. They'll supply laders and tools and extra labor to help you set the booth up. Then, after the show, they'll send your crates back and labor and tools to help you tear down and arrange shipping back to you.

Special forces soldiers don't leave things like who's gonna bring the ammo to chance. And competent companies don't leave things like a once-a-year major tradeshow to chance either.
 
I don't recall if I have ever seen advertising for a new knife company such as DOK that went kablooey out of the starting gate.
 
I guess their target buyer must be a 13 year old pimply faced keyboard commando that splits his time online line between anime porn and all things tactical. I'm not offended by these ads, I'm disgusted. I'm fully aware that some knives are designed to kill and completely comfortable with that fact. However, I'm put off by a company that so irresponsibly advertises that as their products sole purpose. Sensationalism at its worst. Anyone who really likes being able to own decent sized fixed blade knives should be outraged. This is exactly the kind of crap that forces needless legislation on law abiding people. I can see it now, destructive devices, machine guns, and all knives over 3" long with spooky looking serrations and blood spray controlling grooves will all require a special tax stamp. I can't believe that anyone who is a true knife enthusiast would even be associated with this drivel.

If the knives were worth a s**t they wouldn't need this hype.


MO
 
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