dark ops stratofighter folder

If he had really done his homework, he would never have bought a DO folder and not because it is a knock-off.

I also find it interesting how runeman cites Jerry Hossom in his post, yet twists his meaning 180 deg (post #36). I am sure Jerry will have something to say about that (if it is even worth it).

You know, all I get from this exchange is that here is someone who wants so desperately to have bought "the best deal", that he simply can not face the truth that he got the bum-end of a deal.
 
If only someone could be happy with their new knife without being criticized....

-Not that i agree with some of Runeman's statements.....
-Nor that of Rat Finkenstein

Besides all of this bickering, one should not be judged upon a knife they buy.... yes there are tons of better knives in that price range.... And honestly i would never buy one of the DO knives... But for someone, that might be the knife perfectly suitable for them in their price range.. If that were simply the case, then do you think it would be ok? If so, that's all there should be to it....


Cant we all just, get along?:D:thumbup:
 
Jerry Hossom said:
There is no meaningful legal protection against ripoffs. Design patents are lame at best and by the time you actually get one, a design has been knocked off so many times that the legal expense of enforcing it is prohibitive.

This for those who think I have twisted Mr. Hossoms qoute this is my reference for stating designs are copied overnight.


3Guardsmen said:
And when you consider this post of his, in another thread, he can't claim ignorance as a defense:


Read all of the posts, Never claimed ignorance. My research was and is on the merits of a knife, not who makes them. And all the research on both was pretty equal except for gripping ability. Im not a name brand fashion kinda guy, I just want a good knife. Do you own one ? and if not how can you honestly comment on the merits of the knife. I bought a knife, not a company.



http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5341135&postcount=262

Regards,
3G
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HoB said:
If he had really done his homework, he would never have bought a DO folder and not because it is a knock-off.

I also find it interesting how runeman cites Jerry Hossom in his post, yet twists his meaning 180 deg (post #36). I am sure Jerry will have something to say about that (if it is even worth it).

You know, all I get from this exchange is that here is someone who wants so desperately to have bought "the best deal", that he simply can not face the truth that he got the bum-end of a deal.[/QUOTE

Do you own one of the knives ? If you don't, how do you know what kind of deal it is. Please ellaborate as to how you have come to this conclusion without owning and using one of their knives or are you secretly unethical ? Have you done a side by side comparison with every other knife of that style configuration, in that price range ? You should post a review on your findings I would love to see your results.
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You did twist my meaning. It is much easier to copy a design than it is to patent a design. The patent process simply doesn't afford protection against ripoff artists. It's just that simple.

You seem not to understand that those of us who work in the industry put in long, hard years in developing useful designs that have consumer appear as well as being functional. It takes just a few weeks for a dishonest SOB to copy it. I don't understand how anyone in good conscience can defend such people. They are literally stealing from those of us who do this honestly.
 
Jerry Hossom said:
You did twist my meaning. It is much easier to copy a design than it is to patent a design. The patent process simply doesn't afford protection against ripoff artists. It's just that simple.

You seem not to understand that those of us who work in the industry put in long, hard years in developing useful designs that have consumer appear as well as being functional. It takes just a few weeks for a dishonest SOB to copy it. I don't understand how anyone in good conscience can defend such people. They are literally stealing from those of us who do this honestly.
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Mr.Hossom,
I apologize to you Sir. I did not intend to twist your words, just to show that many designs are copied very rapidly due to a demand for popular styles.
And I do understand for you as a craftsman and knifemaker your very valid point. I have never defended Dark-Op's the company or their practises and have always stated that I knew they were modified ER copies. What I am defending is the knife. A knife that a whole bunch of people want to trash but state they have never owned or used.
Recently a guy was banned for asking in his first post was a strider an overpriced piece of trash. Which was probably what someone who has never owned or used one told him. I bought the knife after reading so many different posts here some good, some bad and reading all the professional reviews I could find. I had to see for myself and found it to be a very solid knife with a good fit and finish. I have taken her all the way down and the lock seats fully as this was a sore spot with one of the members here.
ethic's aside I defend the merits of the knife not the company.
Think of it like racism, If you give a homeless muslim a dollar is that supporting terrorism. Would you not hire someone solely because they are black or would you judge that person as an individual on their own merits and not just a member of a race or sect.
 
Jos said:
Have you considered to buy the "real deal" from Extrema Ratio? I have the Nemesis folder and it is heavy, large bladed and has a failsafe locking mechanism (with an extra lock to lock the locking mechanism).
Price is a bit high.
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Yes I have considered buying the real ER Nemesis, but it is cost prohibitive right now. The extreme ratio knife that has really sparked my interest is the RAO. Man!!! that is one HEAVY duty folder and sells for $150.00 less than the Nemesis. As for the matter at hand, I have started this journey of knife collecting only very recently. It is not for the week walleted (new word;))
But I don't think I could be as proud of showing my collection, if it included a Dark ops knock off. I very rarely cave to peer pressure. By adding a DO folder to my collection,(unless they came out with a knife unique to them), would compromise my own values. I would always want to hide a knife costing $200 from anyone viewing my collection, who has any knowledge of knifes at all. Now with all of this in mind, how many knifes out there, have some aspect of other peoples designs, incorporated in them. At what point is it a knock off or just a coincidence. I agree that a knife maker worth a shit, wouldn't copy his former employers design. But what if it were a well established company like Spyderco or H&K would it change the dynamic??
 
lcplcookba said:
Yes I have considered buying the real ER Nemesis, but it is cost prohibitive right now. The extreme ratio knife that has really sparked my interest is the RAO. Man!!! that is one HEAVY duty folder and sells for $150.00 less than the Nemesis. As for the matter at hand, I have started this journey of knife collecting only very recently. It is not for the week walleted (new word;))
But I don't think I could be as proud of showing my collection, if it included a Dark ops knock off. I very rarely cave to peer pressure. By adding a DO folder to my collection,(unless they came out with a knife unique to them), would compromise my own values. I would always want to hide a knife costing $200 from anyone viewing my collection, who has any knowledge of knifes at all. Now with all of this in mind, how many knifes out there, have some aspect of other peoples designs, incorporated in them. At what point is it a knock off or just a coincidence. I agree that a knife maker worth a shit, wouldn't copy his former employers design. But what if it were a well established company like Spyderco or H&K would it change the dynamic??
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I think the RAO has a wider blade and would be a much better cutter.

Btw, H&K doesn't make knives- they are made by Benchmade.

If Spyderco or Benchmade started stealing people's designs, there would be no change in dynamic- they would cease to be reputable companies, and be deserted by their customers. (aside from the ignorant, and of course, the ethically-devoid cretins)

Reputable companies do not steal designs, and ethical people do not support thieves.
 
I can recall at least three instances in which BM has produced folders that had/have too many design similarities of certain Spyderco models to be call unique. One was apparently produced under some agreement between the two companies, one I don't know, and one did leave Sal less than pleased but that is a while back, and the model isn't even produced by BM anymore. Yet, there are some people that will refuse to buy BM models for these and some other infractions.

P.S.: This is more of a historical reflection, rather than a point I am trying to make.
 
Runeman, think of it as putting that dollar in the pocket of the Imam who supports and preaches intellectual terrorism. It's not about the steel; it's about the character of the person selling the steel.

Frankly, your analogies suck, and I think you're trying to rationalize a bad decision. You may not have intended to support terrorism, but that's where your buck ended up.
 
The is a review on another forum about DO folder, it is not only a copy of Nemesis, is a bad copy.The lock is weak, even with the safety pin would fail a spine whack with moderate force. There are some pics with this folder disassembled and showing very crude machining and very poor quality control.
 
I think the real kick is when you compare that to a Spyderco Manix for example with a proven lockback design and an ultimate lockstrength of roughly 250 lbs/in. Or compared to the massive liner lock on the Hossom, or against a BM axis lock like on the 710. None of which pretend to be badass or hard-use....they simply are....and that for significantly less mula.

To me only that comparison makes a knife laughable mall ninja: When you wrap a design, even if it isn't as bad as the shown example, but that is easily outperformed, in a bad-ass outward appearance and advertising campaign and ask top dollar for it, to fool the poor mall-ninja buyer in thinking that he actually gets something that even remotely justifies the price. And $200+ is really top dollar for a folder, because function-wise you will have a real hard time to beat a mid-price Spyderco/BM/Kershaw. For that amount you really have to offer top materials and/or top craftsmanship like on the real ER. Because, it would be REALLY embarrassing if you got caught with your broken/folded/failed Dork Ops, while your friends Byrd Cara Cara with better materials and better fit and finish continues to perform for $25.....
 
Yesterday I decided to clean my Nemesis and take some pics. Unfortunately, I don't know how to take close pics ( or I don't have the proper tools :) ). As you can't see from pics, all pieces are well made. I suppose that the gap between blade and lock was designed so, because the end of the lock bar is carefully ground .

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