dark ops stratofighter folder

First a big thank you for posting this. But forgive me for saying this, but this is a lock-engagement that I would consider questionable. I think the ramp on the lockbar is the wrong way and the engagement is too shallow. This design ensures, that you have no vertical bladeplay but it increases the chances of slipping, especially if you have some lint or dirt in there. Also the edges are rounded over showing a shortcut in machining.

This is taken from a thread on the Spyderco forum which should be a mandatory read for anyone interested in heavy duty lockbacks (I know cross forum linking is frowned upon, but this thread contains general information which I think are a very informative read, for specific questions both Sal and STR can be contacted here on bladeforums. http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21580) were a similarly designed lock is discussed:

"By looking at the angle of the engagement at the rear of the lock, it is ramped to slip out of engagement.

At Spyderco we go to great lengths to make sure this angle is 90 degrees or negative in the other direction to insure a "hook", not a "ramp". the more pressure that is applied to the above lock, the more likely the lock will squirt upwards which will disengage the lock.

sal"


But the rest shows good f&f. Better than I have seen in other images of DO folders.
 
the inside curves are there to eliminate stress risers. Who knows why they rounded off the bottom. Still, looks like positive engagement, which cannot be said about the Dork ops copy. Pics are too fuzzy to really see any detail.
 
"Pics are too fuzzy to really see any detail" ... yes, I know, but I did my best :)
Anyway, you can see from the pics how strong is the spring, and imagine the blade and the lock, are 6 mm thick !...like A1 blade, for instance. I suppose that the gap is to ensure a longer time of no blade play and , maybe, to guarantee that some dirt will not make the lock fail.
 
Allex,
I really appreciate the photos of that ER of yours as I have never been able to handle one myself. The lock up configuration is actually not as deep in the blade as when I disassembled my DO. Don't get me wrong I am not saying the DO is better by any means
just saying the photos here http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=363649 are nothing like the lock up on my knife. There could not be any sufficient force on the lock and with a blade as heavy as that on only one scale the pivot could not have been verticle to allow a full seat of the lock as the blade would be cocked down. notice the gap at the lock face and blade.
 
I can't contradict you. But when I bought the knife I tested, first I put some pressure on the open knife with my hands, then I did a couple of spine whacks on the table, is rock-solid.
 
The lock seems to engage deep enough. I've seen worse lets put it that way.

The angle does appear to be ramped the wrong way or at least lets just say, "the optimum way."

What we could say is there are numerous examples of good locks out there and then there are better ones and of course there are bad ones too. This goes for all lock types.

Where this one sits? I'd say probably middle of the road based on what I've seen.

The space under the lock bar in the notch is a good thing. It allows for some lint to accumulate without intefering with the lock. Japanese locks typically have a very tight fitting precise contact and are disturbed by the slightest amount of pocket lint balls getting into the mechanism but if maintained they perform well. Most of the USA made lockbacks have a space under the lock like that pictured to varying degrees. Its considered fine by most makers and manufacturers. Contact angle is based on subtleties that I don't want to get into here. I personally wonder if that lock would be prone to popping up with a sudden shock to the tip third or spine of the blade. If it does its probably good it sinks as deep down as it does. Unless it has a lock for the lock bar like my Fulcrum II from Extreme Ratio did I'd be cautious of it I think in hard use or when testing it. It may work fine in most uses, but I think it could be optimized.

I'll just post some pictures for you to digest of a small sampling of what I've seen or snagged in the industry from various knives over time.

STR

First is a Mini Manix by Spyderco. Note the subtle differences in angle? This is a great lock up.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75588&d=1184978257

Here we have a Japanese make top, and one I consider poor bottom. You'd be shocked at how many I see worse than this.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=62286&d=1162908199

Here we have a Cold Steel Ultimate Hunter. This is a great lock up also but note the fit difference of the Japanese locks. This knife sinks deep and its undercut is angled perfectly. You could probably sit on this thing opened after hammering it in a tree!
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=77270&d=1187575917

Here are two views and nicer close in shots for you to view so you can see the lock up a bit better. Note the Japanese fit again here. Also, note the old school lock from a lockback from the 70s made by Case. Nice to see improvements here I must say.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=77600&d=1188012061

So rating a lock is tricky business. In many ways the one pictured will work fine for most folks. In others it has some areas I'd like to see done better.

I think someone hit some of my own thoughts on the head. Character has a lot to do with who I purchase from. However, with that said, there are some in the industry I flat out don't care for personally but I like their products and rate them very highly. I think its no secret who but when it comes to rating the products I call it like I see the product disregarding who is behind it or my personal feelings for that person or persons. If I did otherwise I would not be sitting here typing with a Strider PT in my pocket believe me. Nor would I rate locks like the Cold Steel Ultimate Hunter so highly. I don't like a lot about Lynn Thompson and you can find a lot of bad to say about him but the fact is he demands great locks and most often he gets them. Many users thank him daily for this demanding nature of his. The fact is just because some sleezeball was the designer or owns the company does not make all the good law abiding tax paying citizens that work for them bad people. These folks deserve credit and support regardless of what the owners might be made of.

The product deserves an honest evaluation. If you can't do that or only do it half the time cutting a break for some while being critical of others I have little care for your opinion because you let your personal feelings interfere with your take on the product in the end line users hands.

If I judged this product by the fact that it appears they are snake oil salesman trying to make a quick buck by pretending to keep up with the big boys in design I'd not be honestly looking at what they created here in their shop or giving benefit of the doubt and believe me there is more than enough room for doubt here. Many designs are enhanced and added to by learning and growing taking what they can use from what someone else has done and leaving out other things they don't feel they need or can use to improve what they visualize in their own minds. This does not equate to theft of IP when the guy stealing it makes sure there are just enough differences to make it 'legal' it just makes themselves look bad unless they have a contract which was worked out between those behind the designs. I don't know that this is not the case personally. I have written Extreme Ratio to ask them personally if the Dark Ops company and ER have worked out some agreement because of the noted similarity in the knives. Once I have what I lack then I will comment on such things as IP theft among other things regarding this company. Suspecting something is so is one thing, knowing is something entirely different. I prefer to check the facts before jumping on the bandwagon pointing the finger. Its really not up to us to be policing the internet and the industry for sleezeballs. Leave that to legal. If what has been suspected is true then Dark Ops is just one of many other sleezeballs in this industry that have come to light in recent times. There are worse sins going on in the industry regarding false training and claims that many seem to know about but still find it easy to overlook.

Back to the question presented to me via email by Hob. Looking at the lock here I'd say its on par with most production folders on the market and is not a stand out for being really poor and not a stand out for being top shelf. Chances are you can get better for less money and less hype.

STR
 
Thanks, STR! Great post as always! I had spend a good while to find pictures of lock engagements as comparison and found the thread on the Spyderco forum. So it is great to see a larger sampling.
 
No problem. I have a much larger sampling I could share but thats ample I think to get the point across.

I'll just add that what I mean when I say the character of who I buy from determines if I buy is simply for example, if I wanted a new Lincoln Navigator and I detected a snake oil salesman sleezeball trying to sell it to me at my dealer here I'd simply go elsewhere to buy the Lincoln. I like the Navigator and have to say its the best I've ever owned in the way of a vehicle. Should I not buy it because Henry Ford supported Hitler? I guess to some thats all they need to hear. For me I look at the product independently of all that judging it on its own merits or lack of them.

Some sleeze ball may have made the knife in my pocket or the one being talked about here but if its a good knife and well built its a good knife and well built. Case closed. Again though I'd say this one appears middle of the road to me and adds nothing all that spectactular to the industry.

STR
 
Heard back from Extreme Ratio today. See their reply below. So there you have it. Now we know.

So Dork Ops is just that. Word up! We have another sleezeball alert!

Hi Steve,

I haven't seen any Dark Ops knives personally but I know that many knife users/collectors have commented on there being a "similarity" between the original ER knives and Dark Ops knives. BTW: Your Fulcum II is a great knife and very popular!

There is no alliance between the two companies.

Sincerely,
Nancy, XtremeKnives.com
 
Yesterday I decided to clean my Nemesis and take some pics. Unfortunately, I don't know how to take close pics ( or I don't have the proper tools :) ). As you can't see from pics, all pieces are well made. I suppose that the gap between blade and lock was designed so, because the end of the lock bar is carefully ground .

IMG_4671.jpg


IMG_4673.jpg

Hey Allex thanks for the inside scoop on the nemesis, The lock looks very robust and the blade is very clean. Do you use it very often? How is the grind, difficult to put a nice, crisp edge on it? I am in the market for one, so if you have a heads up on a location, I'd be grateful.
 
No problem. I have a much larger sampling I could share but thats ample I think to get the point across.

I'll just add that what I mean when I say the character of who I buy from determines if I buy is simply for example, if I wanted a new Lincoln Navigator and I detected a snake oil salesman sleezeball trying to sell it to me at my dealer here I'd simply go elsewhere to buy the Lincoln. I like the Navigator and have to say its the best I've ever owned in the way of a vehicle. Should I not buy it because Henry Ford supported Hitler? I guess to some thats all they need to hear. For me I look at the product independently of all that judging it on its own merits or lack of them.

Some sleeze ball may have made the knife in my pocket or the one being talked about here but if its a good knife and well built its a good knife and well built. Case closed. Again though I'd say this one appears middle of the road to me and adds nothing all that spectactular to the industry.

STR

STR, Very informative, thanks. Could you take a few minutes to rifle off a few knives with locks that you find top shelf? Having confidence, that your blade, won't bit the hand that feeds it is, to me, A high priority. Take care
 
STR, Very informative, thanks. Could you take a few minutes to rifle off a few knives with locks that you find top shelf? Having confidence, that your blade, won't bit the hand that feeds it is, to me, A high priority. Take care

Don't mind at all but I don't want to derail this thread and fear it may take it off the subject of your folder being discussed but it is your thread I guess.

Come to my forum and ask we can discuss it further rather than take this too far off subject. For now I'll just say:


The Zero Tolerance 0200, JYDII liner lock, NRG are all great Kershaw/ZT offerings.

Ontario knives Retribution folders are tanks really made to work and you hardly hear a bad word about them. Big knives though.

If you want smaller liner locks the old Strider Buck 880 and 881 models are good ones if you can find any.

I like a lot of frame locks. Strider PT/ SnG. Sebenza, Bradley Alias folders. Mini and full size Skirmish by BenchMade. The Tyrade and JYDII Kershaw frame locks are two top shelf folders I recently acquired.

Cheaper frame locks like the Kershaw Vapor or the small Mantis Isosceles are both a great little cheap purchase deals for a frame lock as a daily beater and both are impressive for just a small bit of change.

Lockbacks. You can't go wrong with most Spydercos. The Cold Steel Voyager and Vaquero are good strong reliable folders. The Cold Steel Ultimate Hunter is a good one with lots of strength and reliability not even found in knives three times the price and in a sub $60 purchase.

Thanks

STR
 
Because of the blade shape and the size this knife was not an EDC, I carried it maybe 15x- 20x times. The original edge was not so sharp so I used one of my stones and now is razor sharp, it wasn't difficult to do this. Usually, I take this knife when I ride my bike, because of my leather trousers with big, strong pockets. Otherwise I use a cordura sheath. Regarding the cover of the blade I can tell you that I cut some bush branches and there is no scratch on it.
 
Nice up close shots of the ER. Sure would like to handle one, but I have never seen in a shop or any of the traveling shows which come to town.
 
Nice up close shots of the ER. Sure would like to handle one, but I have never seen in a shop or any of the traveling shows which come to town.

You should check and see if there are any passarounds available through the forums, and if not, maybe request one.;)

Regards,
3G
 
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