Dealers Not Shipping To New York State

JPD1998

JPD1998

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Well for the 3rd or 4th time in the last several months, I've shopped at an on-line dealer , put a regular locking knife in my cart , go to check out and get a message that items in my cart can't be shipped to the state of NY.
I live in upstate NY not NYC...

I didn't start this thread to argue the legal basis for a dealer not shipping a knife to New York State, they have the right to conduct their business anyway they choose. This is more to vent my frustration and to see if any other NY residents are having problems ordering knives.

So I invite all fellow NY state residents to list what knives wouldn't be shipped and if they purchased the item from another dealer. I'm not listing dealers names, they know who they are, but I will not ever purchase a knife from them again and I do have another residence in SC.

So here's the business ( to date) you dealers lost.

- Lion Steel SR-1 $389
- Strider SMF -$479
- Kershaw Lahar - $47.00
 
Yup I started the same knind of thread and got moved. I was also going to order a Custom Strider from a dealer ( a $975 custom) and saw they would not ship to NY state. This is a very reptiable, honest dealer, considered to one of the top places. As of now I will no longer support any of these dealer that will not ship to NY, I live 400 miles west of NYC in a very rurual area. I guess there is nothing as of now we can do to change there minds or the DA that is causing this problem.
 
Why have issues toward the dealer ? Why not start a grassroots effort to straighten out the DA / politicians in NY ? There was a knife show moved from there to NJ correct ? That should tell you something.

Stand up and be counted , but place the blame on your own state , not on the dealers. Why should they take the chance of having legal action come against them ?
 
To tell you the truth it is not NY state but NYC that is the problem. Changing the politics down there is what needs to be done, but that is a fat chance in hell!!! As for the dealers it is not hard to look at the zip to see where it is going, unless you are a dealer that does 50-100 transactions a day, then it probably is not worth it. What about California, is this the same problem there? Just curious.
 
Plenty of great discussion points here...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=750119

Going by this ( remember what is free is worth what you paid )
http://knife-expert.com/ny.txt

reading into it you find this...

5. "Gravity knife" means any
knife has blade which is released from the handle or
sheath thereof by the force of gravity of the application
of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in
place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other
device. [Note: In NYC, and potentially in other NY
jurisdictions, this definition is construed to apply to
ANY folding knife with a blade that locks open. ]

So why would any dealer/maker/company take the risk of having to spend big $$$ to defend themselves in court ?

Take back your city , vote , speak up , if the people of NYC that are affected aren't going to do anything , why would anyone expect an online retailer do anything other than refuse to ship ? If they ship and that knife passes thru NYC and is found , who loses financially ? The buyer ? Or the retailer who shipped it ?
 
Its unfortunate but a dealer has a responsibility to follow all applicable laws. i am sure it was nothing personal. Just a business making sure they were not going to deal with issues down the road.
 
The thing that some dealers fail to realize, I think, is that New York laws only apply to New Yorkers. States can't pass laws involving citizens of other states. There isn't any way for them to sue a knife company in another state for shipping. They would have to make the lawsuit in the shipping dealer's venue, not in New York State. The shipping dealer's state has no jurisdiction over New York laws. The dealers that cowtow to these laws are helping support laws like this. They should be ashamed of themselves.

I had the state of California spend about 1/2 a year trying to get me to collect sales taxes for them on products shipped to California. Of course, I refused. They put up a pretty big struggle before finally throwing in the towel. I got emails, letters, phone calls, threats of various sorts. Instead of threatening residents of other states, they would do well to get rid of their incompetent state legislature and get things under control.
 
Also look at the magazine capacity restrictions in NY and Calif , manufactures/dealers/ distributors will not ship mags that are deemed "illegal" into those states to individuals , they will however ship them to other dealers.

It is then up to that dealer to make sure the mags only end up being purchased by LE's.

Just curious from the person who started the thread , do you still shop at any of the stores that caved in and gave in to the DA ( Home Depot , etc ?)
 
John T Wylie Jr said:
Also look at the magazine capacity restrictions in NY and Calif , manufactures/dealers/ distributors will not ship mags that are deemed "illegal" into those states to individuals , they will however ship them to other dealers.

It is then up to that dealer to make sure the mags only end up being purchased by LE's.

Just curious from the person who started the thread , do you still shop at any of the stores that caved in and gave in to the DA ( Home Depot , etc ?)
Click to expand...

My thread is about out of state mail order sales , I think KNIFE OUTLET summed up my sentiments. I started this thread after trying to check out at a dealer I have spent about $500 over the years.

But to answer your question ...if a store carrys less and less of what interests me then I usually stop shopping there. An example would be WalMart in my town. They have stopped selling firearms, scaled back on their knife selection ....There's less to attract me there.

From what I read, the stores that caved in were in the city, Home Depot in my area sells locking knives and locking box cutters. Lowes even sells a jumbo assortment pack of a few dozen crappy dollar store knives

Let me give another example , in my town a large sporting goods chain has their own policy of not selling handgun ammo to anyone without a permit. There's no law of that kind in NY State , but they do it anyway. I own a rifle that takes handgun ammo... I don't shop there anymore.... period.

John - you make very good points and I appreciate you posting your thoughts here , it's always good to get opinions from others who share the same interests.
 
Its the same here, Dick's and Gander Mountain do not have the knife selection they use to. I no longer go to Lowe's or Home De Pot anymore, I have a nice local hardware store that is allot nicer and believe it or not better price's. Another note on the pistol ammo, same here, I have found most places want to see a pistol permit to buy pistol ammo, except a couple of local ammo and firearm store's.
 
JDieseljoe69 said:
Its the same here, Dick's and Gander Mountain do not have the knife selection they use to. I no longer go to Lowe's or Home De Pot anymore, I have a nice local hardware store that is allot nicer and believe it or not better price's. Another note on the pistol ammo, same here, I have found most places want to see a pistol permit to buy pistol ammo, except a couple of local ammo and firearm store's.
Click to expand...


Your right about Gander Mountain... a real pathetic selection of knives, and to think only a few years ago I bought a Benchmade Mini Rukus there.

Dick's was the one that gave me a hard time, I had to ask for a manager. I got my ammo , but I don't shop there anymore.
 
Isn't it simply astounding how far some of these laws have gone ? It really makes one wonder how our kids or grand-kids will be able to enjoy the items we leave behind.

I hope it clears up for those in NYC . I worry after seeing Calif laws start to spread to other states that some will spread to NV.

Here in Vegas , a gun shop will ID you if you buy an over 10 round magazine , just to make sure you are not from Calif. Crazy isn't it ?

Thankfully we have some strong supporters in the knife industry who do all they can to influence getting stupid ridiculous laws overturned. My hat is off to them.

In a recent discussion with a co-worker who felt that magazine capacity should be limited and blade length should be regulated to be under 4" I used this to get my point across:

I simply told him to be careful about letting any government decide what is good for the people , else he may find the gov stepping in and telling him that 400 HP is too much for his fancy BMW sport sedan , and it is now banned , and that all passenger cars must be under 150HP , with speed regulated at a top of 70MPH.

It was like a light bulb went off , and he finally understood , control is not about doing good , it is about control only and has no boundaries. You give here , they will take there.
 
Some how and some way we need to stop Law Making abuse. The politicians have gotten out of control, to say the least!!!
 
A few things to think about...

First, and most important, the "Gravity knife" law (quoted by John T Wylie Jr above) applies to New York State, not just NYC. The DA's crackdown was only in NYC because that's his jurisdiction. There's absolutely no way to know that other jurisdictions won't follow suit with their own crackdowns, or that they won't use NYC as an example in prosecuting an individual specific case.

Hell, many "New Yorkers" live in Jersey.:rolleyes: Those people should be lucky that dealers still mail knives there.:D

Finally, be assured that the decision by dealers to refuse sales to NY was not made lightly. It's obviously a not insignificant chunk of business they lose out on. They, as much as you and I, undoubtedly think the laws and the DA's crackdown are completely idiotic and wrong.
 
This is B*LL$H!T!!! I live almost 6 hours form the Boroughs of the City (which is where I understand the law is only confined to)!!!
What was not sold to me: Spyderco Para1 - $125 (?); CRK Diamond Plate Sebbie - $455; Benchmade 755 (?) blk blade MPR (which has UNDER a 3” blade) – $220ish; ZT0300 - $235ish; after they said “sorry, we can’t ship to NY” to me (I do most of my buying by phone), I said “No need to be sorry, you guys just lost out on X amount of dollars. Have a good day…

And I know who some are and will never buy from these places again (after the law is cleared up supposedly).
I do now own all of the aforementioned knives.


However, I called the State Police in NY and they said I could carry 'any length' knife as long as it's not a switchblade and I'm not in NYC Boroughs...
"As for a gravity knife, when holding the BLADE rather than the handle, most knives will open with a flick of the wrist, which means it falls into the definition of a gravity knife. This is obviously not what the spirit of the law is, and hopefully this practice will be stopped."
 
Knife Outlet said:
The thing that some dealers fail to realize, I think, is that New York laws only apply to New Yorkers. States can't pass laws involving citizens of other states. There isn't any way for them to sue a knife company in another state for shipping. They would have to make the lawsuit in the shipping dealer's venue, not in New York State. The shipping dealer's state has no jurisdiction over New York laws. The dealers that cowtow to these laws are helping support laws like this. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Click to expand...

Clearly, you're not a lawyer, and should leave discussion of these matters to people who are. Your statements here are incorrect. If you're a dealer doing business in New York, and are breaking the law by doing so, you can absolutely be prosecuted under that state's "long-arm statute."

Your second paragraph regarding sales tax is correct, however.
 
Samael said:
Clearly, you're not a lawyer, and should leave discussion of these matters to people who are. Your statements here are incorrect. If you're a dealer doing business in New York, and are breaking the law by doing so, you can absolutely be prosecuted under that state's "long-arm statute."

Your second paragraph regarding sales tax is correct, however.
Click to expand...

LMAO!!! :foot::D;)
 
I'm a resident of NY State, no where near NY City. Before all the NY City stuff started, I bought from numerous online sellers. Now some won't ship any folding knife to me. That's their perogative.

I won't purchase from them, when this all blows over. That's my perogative. I've got lotsa places I can buy knives. They've lost my business for good.
 
Samael said:
Clearly, you're not a lawyer, and should leave discussion of these matters to people who are. Your statements here are incorrect. If you're a dealer doing business in New York, and are breaking the law by doing so, you can absolutely be prosecuted under that state's "long-arm statute."

Your second paragraph regarding sales tax is correct, however.
Click to expand...

The law would cover New York dealers, people who have a presence there. Personally, I don't do any business in new York. I do business in Indiana where I am located and in Michigan where my web server is located. I have no presence in any other state. The state can have a "long arm statute" but it is still passing laws that affect non citizens and residents. To me it is of no more value than the knife laws they are trying to get other people to enforce for them. If it is legal for them to prosecute people in other states, then we Americans need to do something about the legal system. I reject the whole thing.
 
I'm sure plenty of people are upset at us. We're one of the dealers that won't ship to NYS. In fact we kind of got the whole trend started. I think a lot of people (and dealers) really don't understand what happened. NYC went after a bunch of local dealers and one Internet dealer. Guess who the Internet dealer was? It's not hypothetical anymore.

After spending over $40,000 last year to ward off NYC's (and NYS's) various attacks, threats, entrapment attempts, and extortion efforts we have achieved what I can only call a precarious peace (I had to fly down to NYC with a giant team of lawyers). I don't ship to NYC or NYS. Pardon me.

Now you have my side. Would you ship to NY anymore? Customer's can be as angry as they want. I hope they are. Direct your anger at the right source.

Other Internet retailers can be indignant as they want, but get your facts straight. And remember- you can kill a small company with legal fees long before you ever get to the suing part.

-Cam
 
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