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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/
Deals for 10/25 -- Pix and a couple of real steals.
- Thread starter Yangdu
- Start date
OK, I looked at that falcata and I have the same problem with it that I had with the Seax knives. They are not historically accurate. It is not so bad in the case of the falcata as the problem is in the scabbard, which can be easily replaced by the likes of Triton, but what I want to know is why they go to the trouble of making a nicely done replica of an historic piece and then mess it up by putting Hindu gods all over the scabbard which should have been plain wood or wood covered with leather. My problem with the seax knives is that they put khukri style hilts on them. Had they put traditional seax hilts on them, I'd have bought one in a fast second. Again, why screw up a well made blade by putting the wrong hilt on it?
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- May 9, 2002
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What exactly are they "screwing up" 
?
I understand that they are not historically accurate, but they were never meant to be. The ideas that go through the pipelines at HI have nothing to do with being accurate to a historic model. They are designed to be based on that model to be a meld of history, utility, and the kami's imagination. Most of the kamis can neither read nor write in their own language, let alone be up on what happened in other parts of the world 1000's of years ago where "history" was made.
You have to call these knives and swords something. They are too close to the original to be stand alone models. HI never hides the fact that these are not replica pieces, just the kami's take on a drawing or model sent over from some crazy American that wants something else besides the obviously perfect khukuri.
I understand your point, but to called them "screwed up" is not really accurate. They still have a sharp side, and they'll still last forever.
Jake
?I understand that they are not historically accurate, but they were never meant to be. The ideas that go through the pipelines at HI have nothing to do with being accurate to a historic model. They are designed to be based on that model to be a meld of history, utility, and the kami's imagination. Most of the kamis can neither read nor write in their own language, let alone be up on what happened in other parts of the world 1000's of years ago where "history" was made.
You have to call these knives and swords something. They are too close to the original to be stand alone models. HI never hides the fact that these are not replica pieces, just the kami's take on a drawing or model sent over from some crazy American that wants something else besides the obviously perfect khukuri.
I understand your point, but to called them "screwed up" is not really accurate. They still have a sharp side, and they'll still last forever.
Jake
OK, I take back the term "screwed up", but I will not take back my complaint that they make their versions ahistorical. Why bother with trying to make a version of an historical item if you aren't going to make it as close as possible to the original? So what if they cannot read, they can certainly look at a picture and see what it is supposed to look like. It is not rocket science here, folks, nor is it deep historical research. The pictures are readily available of both seaxes and of falcatas in their original form and in accurately recreated forms.
I guess that I am seeking different things from a knife that claims an historical name. I am a living history practitioner and I seek historical accuracy when I buy items for the periods that I portray. i also seek historical accuracy for various bladed weapons that I buy that are not from the periods that I portray. My love of Bowie knives is an example and that is why I am so attracted to the Generation 2 replicas about which I and Yvsa have posted. They try very hard to make realistic replicas of historic pieces. I have a knife from Norway that I use in my Norse personna and it is a modern knife with a laminated blade, but the style is very much that of the Viking era. I have a fiction folder from Tinker Pearce that is also beautiful and very accurate for the period.
I guess that I am seeking different things from a knife that claims an historical name. I am a living history practitioner and I seek historical accuracy when I buy items for the periods that I portray. i also seek historical accuracy for various bladed weapons that I buy that are not from the periods that I portray. My love of Bowie knives is an example and that is why I am so attracted to the Generation 2 replicas about which I and Yvsa have posted. They try very hard to make realistic replicas of historic pieces. I have a knife from Norway that I use in my Norse personna and it is a modern knife with a laminated blade, but the style is very much that of the Viking era. I have a fiction folder from Tinker Pearce that is also beautiful and very accurate for the period.
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It could be argued that even the khukuris made in Bir Ghorkha aren't "historically accurate" as compared to the really old ones. However, as with any blade intended for real world use, there will always be evolution/improvement to fit customers' taste, and some expression of the individual bladesmith's creativity. My only problem with this current Falcata offering is that it's so breathtakingly beautiful, I'd be inclined to take a perfectly functional tool/weapon and make a display piece out of it.
Sarge
p.s.: Want "historically accurate"? Check around, a lot of us reenactors produce such things.Here's a wee seax I made as a rainy day project from a rusty old file and a nice piece of antler.
Sarge
p.s.: Want "historically accurate"? Check around, a lot of us reenactors produce such things.Here's a wee seax I made as a rainy day project from a rusty old file and a nice piece of antler.
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- Jun 16, 2002
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I dunno Hugh,
if someone wanted specifically a modern interpretation of a falcata by a smith with a unwavering distinctive style, then how can we apply strict historical evaluative qualities to it?
These falcatas were never meant to be intrepeted as historical. or if they were, then it is hard to fault the kami's b/c we all know their mindset. they do what they want to do and that is the risk we all run into when pursuing custom projects.
i totally understand where you are coming from, but i believe your viewpoint may be unfair in this specific case.
however, if you are of the crowd that believes that "if it ain't historical, it's crap" ideology. then you are right, this falcata doesn't come close to measuring up.
if someone wanted specifically a modern interpretation of a falcata by a smith with a unwavering distinctive style, then how can we apply strict historical evaluative qualities to it?
These falcatas were never meant to be intrepeted as historical. or if they were, then it is hard to fault the kami's b/c we all know their mindset. they do what they want to do and that is the risk we all run into when pursuing custom projects.
i totally understand where you are coming from, but i believe your viewpoint may be unfair in this specific case.
however, if you are of the crowd that believes that "if it ain't historical, it's crap" ideology. then you are right, this falcata doesn't come close to measuring up.
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- Jun 16, 2002
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- 1,104
Ad Astra said:NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not a Falcata!
If I even thought they would make these again....
As a Celt, I *must* have one of these... The Falcata is the Celtic grandfather of the modern day khukuri....
Ad Astra
Hey ad, ever consider a del tin falcata? it's real nice!
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- Sep 22, 2003
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The carved Hindu Gods are the coolest part IMO :thumbup:
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- Jul 30, 2004
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Dave Hahn said:
"I'm not suprised that you do not recognize me, Caesar... at the battle of Munda my eye was struck out and the bones of my skull crushed. And you wouldn't recognize my helmet either, for it was split by a Spanish Falcata." -- Seneca, De Beneficiis
Thanks, Dave. They ARE nice, but the warning throws me:
WARNING: Our swords are for decorating and collecting... blah, blah... blades are unsharp and they're not liable...
An HI falcata is not historically accurate. It is, however, strong enough to use. Some people look at 'em, some people hack stuff up. Like the katana, it must be *functional* art, not just art. Or I would hang a PICTURE of a falcata on the wall. Del Tin has different levels of usable quality stuff, but this one looks like a wallhanger.
Ad Astra
but I will not take back my complaint that they make their versions ahistorical. Why bother with trying to make a version of an historical item if you aren't going to make it as close as possible to the original? So what if they cannot read, they can certainly look at a picture and see what it is supposed to look like. It is not rocket science here, folks, nor is it deep historical research. The pictures are readily available of both seaxes and of falcatas in their original form and in accurately recreated forms.>>>>>>>>>>>
Fuller H.
What makes you think the Kamis wish to make your version of historical accuracy? Of course they could. They do not. Though I agree with many here and ask, "What is accurate?" Only you can decide if you wish to purchase one of these blades. These Kamis make what they wish to make, and how they see them. They have their own 'interpretation'. Many of us enjoy that. I understand if you do not. I will not put them down, though, for not doing what you wish them to do. Enjoy what you can of HI, and find other outlets if some needs are not met. That is our right, and it is proper and good.
munk
Fuller H.
What makes you think the Kamis wish to make your version of historical accuracy? Of course they could. They do not. Though I agree with many here and ask, "What is accurate?" Only you can decide if you wish to purchase one of these blades. These Kamis make what they wish to make, and how they see them. They have their own 'interpretation'. Many of us enjoy that. I understand if you do not. I will not put them down, though, for not doing what you wish them to do. Enjoy what you can of HI, and find other outlets if some needs are not met. That is our right, and it is proper and good.
munk
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- Jan 30, 2002
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- 7,269
Fuller?
Nice posts, good discussion, welcome and well-met.
Most of H.I.'s offerings are H.I.'s offerings. The kamis sureashell are not making historical replicas. Bill Martino had a hard enough time getting them to make accuate copies of wooden models sent to Nepal. To those of us who were not on the pre-paid, gotta-be-like-this list of special orders, it was kind of amusing to see some of the first renderings of a specific order.
What they DO make is subjected to the most rigorous quality control you might imagine, and the position of kami for H.I. is one of great stature, both for the income and the status of being good enough to qualify. Thus, the blades that do arrive are marvelously made, and functional.
Getting the kamis to follow instructions specifically was like herding cats, i.e., entertaining to a spectator, but somewhat frustrating to the "cat wrangler."
If it would put your evaluation criteria at ease, consider each offer as "Himalayan Imports' Product which resembles.............."
Somewhere there is a first model H.I. Bowie around you gotta see to believe. Maybe N2S has it?
Be well and safe.
Nice posts, good discussion, welcome and well-met.
Most of H.I.'s offerings are H.I.'s offerings. The kamis sureashell are not making historical replicas. Bill Martino had a hard enough time getting them to make accuate copies of wooden models sent to Nepal. To those of us who were not on the pre-paid, gotta-be-like-this list of special orders, it was kind of amusing to see some of the first renderings of a specific order.
What they DO make is subjected to the most rigorous quality control you might imagine, and the position of kami for H.I. is one of great stature, both for the income and the status of being good enough to qualify. Thus, the blades that do arrive are marvelously made, and functional.
Getting the kamis to follow instructions specifically was like herding cats, i.e., entertaining to a spectator, but somewhat frustrating to the "cat wrangler."
If it would put your evaluation criteria at ease, consider each offer as "Himalayan Imports' Product which resembles.............."
Somewhere there is a first model H.I. Bowie around you gotta see to believe. Maybe N2S has it?
Be well and safe.
Look, all, what you hear in my posts is disappointment. I am very well aware of the quality of H.I.'s products When they tried to make replicas of historical Western pieces, I became quite excited, only to face disappointment when I saw the result. You cannot imagine how diappointed I was when I saw the seax knives, for I really, really wanted to have an accurate seax made with the quality for which H.I. is justly famous.
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I looked pretty hard for another source of quality Falcatas on the web after seeing the one pictured on the website, searching the forum and figuring there would be no more. I couldn't really find one. The all-metal handle is nice and traditional, but I dislike anything that comes unsharpened.
It's hard even finding much in the way of pictures of different falcatas and traditional lengths and weights on the internet. The replicas are, from what I've seen, replicas of the same falcata (per company). And how much is the one modeled representative of what was used? Is it the nicest, most unused one? Was it unused for a reason? There are a lot of things we took for granted based upon the nice artifacts collected in museaums (earlier archaeology looked for the nice stuff) about the middle ages and earlier that aren't true. Nice things tended to be decorative, and in a lot of cases they were made smaller and of more expensive materials. And even 'definitive works' have errors - I can't remember the title, but one book called a morningstar a mace, and people still misuse mace all the time.
I'm another one that likes full functionality in a knife. Not that there is anything wrong with collecting them as art or for collecting sake, it just doesn't work for me without them being usable. Of course use is relative, my 16.5" village chiruwa WWII gets used differently than my 20" M43 and it would take something special for me to decide to chop the Dui Chirras around in the woods (though at least one of them is destined for testing at least in a controlled environment).
One of my favorite things about HI is the feeling that we're seeing the advancement of a traditional art at an accelerated pace. The combination of the kamis dedication and lifelong experience in their craft with an influx of customers that lets them focus on and experiment with blades. In a traditional setting, it's unlikely a kami could spend all of his time devoted to forging new khukuris (as opposed to all the other iron work that would need done) and even less likely they would have the resources to experiment much if they were likely to need to eat the costs of mistakes or items that were too different from what was normal and couldn't find a local buyer. Heck, we buy their mistakes in minutes. We're working class patrons of the arts.
It's hard even finding much in the way of pictures of different falcatas and traditional lengths and weights on the internet. The replicas are, from what I've seen, replicas of the same falcata (per company). And how much is the one modeled representative of what was used? Is it the nicest, most unused one? Was it unused for a reason? There are a lot of things we took for granted based upon the nice artifacts collected in museaums (earlier archaeology looked for the nice stuff) about the middle ages and earlier that aren't true. Nice things tended to be decorative, and in a lot of cases they were made smaller and of more expensive materials. And even 'definitive works' have errors - I can't remember the title, but one book called a morningstar a mace, and people still misuse mace all the time.
I'm another one that likes full functionality in a knife. Not that there is anything wrong with collecting them as art or for collecting sake, it just doesn't work for me without them being usable. Of course use is relative, my 16.5" village chiruwa WWII gets used differently than my 20" M43 and it would take something special for me to decide to chop the Dui Chirras around in the woods (though at least one of them is destined for testing at least in a controlled environment).
One of my favorite things about HI is the feeling that we're seeing the advancement of a traditional art at an accelerated pace. The combination of the kamis dedication and lifelong experience in their craft with an influx of customers that lets them focus on and experiment with blades. In a traditional setting, it's unlikely a kami could spend all of his time devoted to forging new khukuris (as opposed to all the other iron work that would need done) and even less likely they would have the resources to experiment much if they were likely to need to eat the costs of mistakes or items that were too different from what was normal and couldn't find a local buyer. Heck, we buy their mistakes in minutes. We're working class patrons of the arts.
Nasty
Chief Cook & Bottle Wash
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- Nov 11, 2003
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- 5,924
Norm - I meant welcome to the HI sort of based loosely kinda a maybe little bit sorta Falcatta-ish club.
munk - What do you mean "When Nasty *first* got here?" You don't fear and respect me any more?
Bob - Falcattas are like vigins...she'll break eventually.
munk - What do you mean "When Nasty *first* got here?" You don't fear and respect me any more?
Bob - Falcattas are like vigins...she'll break eventually.
