Design laziness and the proliferation of frame/liner locks

I asked if detent was implied in earlier post, didn't I?
Don't have any linerlocks left... Strangely, I don't feel sad missing on its greatness :)
However, I do have plenty of axis locks. Omega springs pressure the lock bar, which in turn resists blade opening. What ball bearing?
 

Testing a frame lock with free hanging weights is like testing the crash safety of a car while not wearing a seatbelt. The hand is the seatbelt, stopping the user from being injured when the tool would otherwise fail. Also note that I said a properly made frame lock, not one with a paper thin cutout. Every frame lock I have is thicker on the cutout aside from my Leek (which in no way feels strong enough for hard use) and my MPR. Hell, a few of my liner lock knives are thicker.
 
Nono, a liner-lock is perfectly capable of being built with sufficient detent, I'm pointing out that the strength of that detent relies greatly on the size/shape of the ball: deeper fit with steep slope = harder to dislodge, even with weak spring tension, because the blade tang is pushing up that slope to move the ball out of the way. If the ball is too small, the detent is weak unless the spring-pressure is VERY strong (i.e. very diffcult to actually open the blade for use) and even then it is a very short travel-distance for detent to be overcome and all that spring-tension is for naught.

For axis, cbbl, back-lock, even button-lock (though again spring-force is sideways rather than directly applied), the spring is usually holding a much larger object directly in the path of the tang's motion. Even with a much lighter, weaker spring, the sloped-tang must proceed with consistent force against the spring-powered object for a longer time before breaking free of the spring's influence, unless the user applies force against the spring and flips the blade out.

Since it doesn't take much time/distance of force application to overcome a liner/frame-lock's detent, the spring must be that much stronger to prevent accidental opening... and it commonly is not. Even a single omega-spring is sufficient to keep the lock-bar forward on an axis-lock - not much strength at all - and it reduces the likelihood of accidental opening because applied force must continue until the tang achieves a neutral position against the lock-bars spring-pressure trying to close the blade.

Not arguing for the sake of arguing, just talking physics and lock designs.


This post is filled with facts and I agree with it completely.

Me, I really like frame locks. With a quality maker, they're generally robust, and I like that my hand keeps the lock engaged. If Im not using a frame lock, I like a folder to have a finger choil or kick that will save my fingers if the blade closes. Plus, titanium is cool.
 
Me, I really like frame locks. With a quality maker, they're generally robust, and I like that my hand keeps the lock engaged ... Plus, titanium is cool.

:thumbup::cool:

Buy what you like, aim for good quality in design/construction as well as materials :thumbup:

If it sells well, companies will keep making it.
 
Testing a frame lock with free hanging weights is like testing the crash safety of a car while not wearing a seatbelt. The hand is the seatbelt, stopping the user from being injured when the tool would otherwise fail.

Is someone's hand is either rigid enough or does it put a strong enough force on the lock bar to prevent a stressed piece of metal from suddenly slipping a couple millimeters in a fraction of a second? Hands are squishy and knife handles are thin.
 
Is someone's hand is either rigid enough or does it put a strong enough force on the lock bar to prevent a stressed piece of metal from suddenly slipping a couple millimeters in a fraction of a second? Hands are squishy and knife handles are thin.

My feeling is that if the force is enough to make the lock slip/break/whatever, it's also probably enough that it will have dislodged the knife from my hand first.
 
In practice a well made liner or framelock with a proper detent is exceedingly unlikely to open in my pocket or fail in use. I've never even had a slipjoint fail in use. They're simple, inexpensive, and effective. Sometimes I'm into trying a novel lock if its design or construction is interesting, there's no denying the novelty of an axis-lock, but usually I aim to spend extra money on quality of materials used in the construction of the knife, tolerances allowed in its construction, the feel of the knife in hand and use, and aesthetic considerations. Not the lock. These are all much more practically significant to my experience with the knife.
 
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Companies are innovating on locks; try Hogue's button lock. I don't know how strong it is compared to liner locks, but the machining is excellent and the lock is fun to use.
 
I know it is an old thread but it was an interesting read.

Also I thought you might like this



I can't like it if I don't know what it is.
Could you please tell us what you've posted ?
I'm sure many know, but I've never seen one, and have no idea. Thanks.
 
You will not have seen it before.

It is a sort of cross between a frame lock and a back lock.

The lock bar locks against a ramp like a frame lock so the lock bar is in compression, like a frame lock. Construction is more like a back lock.

I wouldn't say it is a fixed folder but it certainly locks up solid and reliably.

It is not the finished article yet but is getting close.
 
You will not have seen it before.

It is a sort of cross between a frame lock and a back lock.

The lock bar locks against a ramp like a frame lock so the lock bar is in compression, like a frame lock. Construction is more like a back lock.

I wouldn't say it is a fixed folder but it certainly locks up solid and reliably.

It is not the finished article yet but is getting close.


Thanks !
Who is making those ?
 
Got another pic of the lock engaging the tang? Does it engage/disengage side to side or up and down?
 
Got another pic of the lock engaging the tang? Does it engage/disengage side to side or up and down?

That is difficult to show with a photo. Lock engages vertically in the upward direction and is disengaged by pushing it down through the window.

I don't want to derail the thread too far, there are a few more pics and a video on Edge Matters Forum http://edgematters.uk/thread/2301-something-new/
 
That is difficult to show with a photo. Lock engages vertically in the upward direction and is disengaged by pushing it down through the window.

I don't want to derail the thread too far, there are a few more pics and a video on Edge Matters Forum http://edgematters.uk/thread/2301-something-new/

That's pretty impressive. Really interesting design, when you mentioned you disengage the lock by pushing it down through the window I couldn't see how that would work without being clumsy, but in that video it actually looks pretty slick. Nice work!
 
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