If a knife is advertised as being a virtually indestructible sharpened prybar, then I think it's perfectly reasonable to see if the knife actually is a virtually indestructible sharpened prybar. Almost all the knives Noss tests are being advertised as virtually indestructible sharpened prybars, so I don't see a problem with him verifying or debunking a manufacturer's claim. That being said, I'd never buy a virtually indestructible sharpened prybar, (VISP?), because such knives have very limited uses. (Read: they're useless.)
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Destruction tests - what can be learned from them, and why?
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i don't think that a busse battle mistress, or a Fallkniven A1, or a Scrapyard Scrapper 6, or a Dan Keffeler Monster would even remotely be describable as "useless"
useless to YOU perhaps, but i'd have a good use for any one of them
useless to YOU perhaps, but i'd have a good use for any one of them
As I remember it, the Busse Skinny Ash did extremely well in the d-tests, but also outcut a Fallk A2 in more conventional tests. The Busse Battle Mistress is a d-test legend and an excellent chopper, and the Keffler custom chopper I found him testing when I googled right now did very well - and it's also a knife that is said to excel in its category (it's a BIG chopping blade.) Even the BK2 does seem to be pretty damn sharp, although it's one of then last knives I'd ever carry and I think that most of the people who do have succumbed to Mall Ninja Disease, so I wouldn't say it is useless.
(If you want to try a reall useless knife of the sharpened prybar kind try a British Army surplus golok: they're called tree beaters for a reason.)
I'll partly concede on the A1 and Scrapper 6. They're not useless- they're just less useful than some other knife that can actually cut. The Monster is just a novelty. It was designed for the sole purpose of passing Noss' tests with flying colors, which it did. Chopping through bricks is its only use. Maybe if you regularly break cinderblocks as part of your job, and don't mind paying hundreds of dollars for an uncomfortable, ridiculously thick slab of 3V.
If a knife is advertised as being a virtually indestructible sharpened prybar, then I think it's perfectly reasonable to see if the knife actually is a virtually indestructible sharpened prybar. Almost all the knives Noss tests are being advertised as virtually indestructible sharpened prybars, so I don't see a problem with him verifying or debunking a manufacturer's claim. That being said, I'd never buy a virtually indestructible sharpened prybar, (VISP?), because such knives have very limited uses. (Read: they're useless.)
True!:thumbup:
I'd be really interested to hear which of the similar sized knives that you sell will out-perform a Battle Mistress, the Keffler "Monster" or Skinny Ash, even leaving toughness out of the equation...
Yes, I know your prices are lower - and the price performance is probably generally excellent - but I think you should be a little more cautious in handing out blanket condemnations of competitors.
stabman
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A Condor Golok works better as a machete than a Battle Mistress does.
The axes are better for chopping down trees.
It all depends on what one intends to do when it comes to selecting the proper tool.
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LOL! i was waiting for a Beckerhead to chime in.... i knew you guys wouldn't let me down
An axe will outperform them in chopping and splitting. A Mora will outperform them in everything else.
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I'm the original Beckerhead, mon ami. I've stayed out of this mess, and will continue to do so. I was just letting someone know that I carry a BK2 on several occasions, thus, mall ninja I must be.
I've been using knives most of my life and testing them for over a decade. There's a reason I like and carry what knives I have.
Moose
Can you tell us the reasons, then? I'm not trying to be obnoxious, just genuinely curious. Why use a BK2 when a thinner blade will do almost everything better?
And, just to clarify... just 'cuz I'm not a fan of the BK2 doesn't mean I don't like any other Beckers, or disrespect their designer.
And, just to clarify... just 'cuz I'm not a fan of the BK2 doesn't mean I don't like any other Beckers, or disrespect their designer.
chiral.grolim
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This is a non-sequitor because I don't have time to reiterate all my previous posts on the topic of D-tests and Noss, both of which as a scientist myself I recognize the value of, both to the user and to the maker, and a large number of makers also recognize the value as evinced by submissions to Noss specifically for his "amateur" testing regimen.
But as to knives not being as functional in chopping/splitting, I submit the following: Dan Keffeler Custom Chopper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c7mGOmds7Pc
But as to knives not being as functional in chopping/splitting, I submit the following: Dan Keffeler Custom Chopper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c7mGOmds7Pc
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I have hundreds of knives. I use Moras, SAKs, Beckers, ESEE's, FBF, Kabars, Bucks, Case's, and on and on and on.
A BK2 offers me alot of confidence in a package that can do most everything, from carve to split to chop, in a 1lb package. Simply put, I know I can't do anything to hurt it, and it will do its job well. Its as close to "The Knife" that I have found, and I been looking pretty hard for a while.
Moose
chiral.grolim
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You forgot to mention the price, as I believe there are numerous other knives out there that offer the same versatility... but at what cost?
This is your fantasy: that's not the opinion I know who have actually used those knives. Welcome to real life!
It's also a mistake to assume that a large chopping knife won't outperform a Mora in slicing. eg
http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/reviews/mt_151.html
An average of three runs with the edges sharpen slicing cardboard on a draw produced the graph at the right which shows the MT 151 outperforming the Mora 2000 on slicing cardboard by about 2:1
..And the MT151 is sort of a $25 BattleMistress (actually it's a Trailmaster ripoff.)
Btw - good luck clearing undergrowth with an axe!
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Actually, I was careful to say that there ARE good reasons to carry a BK2 and just that I believe that MOST people who carry them do so for the tacticoolness.
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Thanks for clarifying. I seemed to only fixate on the other part of that post.
Moose
This is where d-tests and such things are valuable. Because if you look at, say, Cliff Stamp's tests of an MTECH 151 then...
- It weighs about the same as a BK2, but the 9" blade makes it a much better chopper and splitter
- It's as tough as 99% of people need in a knife, so where's the lack of confidence?
Not saying you're wrong, just saying that's my logic for "What sort of half kilo knife should I carry?"
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Hey - you're a BK2 owner, so...
Seriously, different people need different things from knives.
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