Destructive Knife Testing Videos???. . . . Oh Yeah!!!

Tyrkon Lawson: Yes... I'm waiting for Busse to send me one to test. So until I receive it. It's kind of out of my hands at the moment.
 
noss4 said:
Cobalt:I have begin to only use the 3lb steel mallet on the the last 4 or so tests. This is the only one used from now on as stated in my testing outline on the site.
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noss you are standardizing your tests and that is good, however, you know as well as I do you cannot standardize the force at which you hit something. So there will always be variation. The best comparison is done at the same time. There is no sure way, but at least you get a feel for it and you hit something with the same force or near so.


Noss, I am probably wrong on this, but if you are waiting for Busse to send you a test blade, you will be wating a long time. He will only send one if it is purchased. You will have to buy it, is my guess. But if you have made a personal deal than that is that, but not even Cliff got that when he got his battlemistresses.
 
Cobalt said:
noss you are standardizing your tests and that is good, however, you know as well as I do you cannot standardize the force at which you hit something. So there will always be variation. The best comparison is done at the same time. There is no sure way, but at least you get a feel for it and you hit something with the same force or near so.
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Well, there's a way, but it requires machinery that delivers the same force blow after blow. I think here of the mechanical swing machines that the PGA uses to test golf balls and clubs.

Cobalt was talking about human-powered blows, of course, and as he points out, with "feel," you're in pretty subjective territory.
 
Cobalt: Yes I understand there is going to be variation in the way I do it. But the way I see it. A person using a knife in the field does not use a knife in a machine and is never able to measure the exact force they are applying to the knife. If a person or a tester is looking for numeric controlled data then yes they need a machine with the same force and the same number of hits. However every knife is different also different blade lengths, steels, thicknesses, and different manufactures using different heat treat methods. So it's never going to be an exact comparison. You can't make a direct comparison between a Strider BT and a Battle Mistress because they are different to begin with. If every maker made the exact same knife then you could do this. I don't attempt to make direct comparisons between each knife. I could build a crude machine to control the same amount of force and hits.
This is within my capability's to do so. I just choses to do it using human power and under the control of a human because This is how a knife will be used in the hand of person. If knives were designed to be used in another way then they would not have a handle for a human hand to begin with.
Made for humans used by humans.
 
noss4 said:
Made for humans used by humans.
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If you remember, I was one of the people who was critical of your methodology and the above quote represents why. Yes, knives are made for and used by humans BUT, in testing, you are supposed to be testing the KNIFE and not the HUMAN! With the testing methods you most often use, what is being recorded is your ability to destroy a knife and not an objective reporting of a knife's abilities. Yes, your tests can give people an idea of what knives are better for what kinds of tasks but it is nearly entirely subjective with you, yourself, being the largest variable.

In a proper comparison, any variable that can be controlled should be controlled. Your tests are entertaining and they do have value, as I said, but they are not scientific. Not really.
 
noss4 said:
Cobalt: Yes I understand there is going to be variation in the way I do it.. ..If a person or a tester is looking for numeric controlled data then yes they need a machine with the same force and the same number of hits.. ..So it's never going to be an exact comparison.. ..I could build a crude machine to control the same amount of force and hits.
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Then there is nothing scientific or quantitative about any of this data. Number of hits, etc. All results would just be a general review, like any posted here from a user, about how they like a knife with no corresponding claims that it will perform for another user in the same way -nor- is it directly comparable to a previous blade reviewed by the same tester due to inconsistencies of the testing manner. Maybe that is the key... it's not "testing." It's reviewing by a user.


noss4 said:
I just choses to do it using human power and under the control of a human because This is how a knife will be used in the hand of person. If knives were designed to be used in another way then they would not have a handle for a human hand to begin with.
Made for humans used by humans.
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:eek: What?! This needs the pancake on the bunny but I'll use this instead. ;)

somethingsmellsfunny.jpg
 
Paddling_man/roughedges If you want scientific testing then stop talking about it and go out in to your labs full of millions of dollars of testing equipment and nuclear reactors and get to work. :D
 
NUclear reactors huh? I find your apparent inability to take constructive criticism without resorting to flippant comments to be indicative of things that I could not safely comment on outside of w&c. For your information, it would not at all be hard for any person so inclined to conduct more scientific testing than you have done- and on a very tight budget at that. (This is where you respond with some superbly thought out argument such as, "well why don't you do it, roughedges?" so I'll answer in advance: we aren't talking about me or any testing methodolgy that I would use. We're talking about your testing and lack of any objective control in your experimentation.)

Keep on testing yourself noss! It might not be much else but it certainly is entertaining! :thumbup:


I'm bowing out of this discussion now, just as I did the last time I attempted to have intelligent discourse with you, before I go and get myself infracted.
 
I love this banter. I feel like I'm on the playground again.
Did someone just say "I'm gonna go tell my knife, and my knife can beat up your knife."?;):D
 
noss4 said:
Paddling_man/roughedges If you want scientific testing then stop talking about it and go out in to your labs full of millions of dollars of testing equipment and nuclear reactors and get to work. :D
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I never asked for 'em! :D I'm just happy that the individual blades work for me and I do enjoy individual reviews. For me, those are valuable.

I only see the lack of value, a disservice even, when non-scientific, non-repeatable methods (as observed by others and admitted by you) are presented as pseudo-science that illustrates an inaccurate, one-to-one comparison between different blades.

That's not science or "testing." That's sensationalism.

Oh, heck man. Have fun! :D You obviously do and that is cool. :thumbup: Just don't be offended when others note that it's entertainment, not science or actual testing.

(By the way - I *do* spend enough time in a lab... at least an engineering lab. I don't want to return to it in my off time. ;) Besides, you already bought up all the hockey masks. :p)

Like roughedges, I'm outta here now. MMIAM and I are gonna go play kickball. :)
 
It was 10 months ago when Jerry promised that "the movies will soon begin!!!" but we are still waiting...

Considering comparison with other knives I do not think that Busse would do it but Noss4 can and should :)
 
It's whatever you want it to be. information, entertainment, whatever.

This is why I post the words on my site.

THE FINAL JUDGMENT IS YOURS

Peace :)
 
vvk said:
It was 10 months ago when Jerry promised that "the movies will soon begin!!!" but we are still waiting...

Considering comparison with other knives I do not think that Busse would do it but Noss4 can and should :)
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seems like it's only been a couple of weeks :confused:



.
 
noss4 said:
Tyrkon Lawson: Yes... I'm waiting for Busse to send me one to test. So until I receive it. It's kind of out of my hands at the moment.
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Why should Busse send you a knife? Independent research firms usually spend the money and buy the product themselves.
 
just for the record, I have no problem with what Noss does, nor did I mean to infer it. Any testing is better than no testing and taking somethig to destruction does provide information on how it does fail. The "when" part of the failure is the portion that is to inconsistent because there are so man variables. That is what I was trying to point out.

Let's not make this an attack on individuals who test knives in whatever way they do. I think that Noss' test of the Falkniven, for example showed, what I did not want to see in a laminated steel, separation. I think it would be worth doing a few more Nivens to find out if this is consistent behavior.

So keep it up Noss, but don' think you will get a Busse for free, because not even Cliff can claim that.
 
gimmejr said:
Why should Busse send you a knife? Independent research firms usually spend the money and buy the product themselves.
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I do buy most of the knives and I have spent a lot of money on them. Some knives have been donated by individuals. There is nothing uncommon about this.

I'm not going to play a game about this with you guys. Jerry has has been very kind to me when others were not. This is between Jerry and I.


I have nothing more to say on this issue.
 
I don't have any problem with people destroying their own knives and reporting on it.

In my book, however, noss4 is not doing any sort of "testing" in a scientific sense. He's simply pushing the boundaries of hard use until a knife fails. So what does he have? A limit that speaks to one knife and one person under one set of conditions with very little meaningful measurement. Like Cobalt, I think that noss4's "work" is interesting at times, but not testing in the usual sense of the word.

On the other hand, if he's going to do qualitative work, then maybe it ought to be good qualitative work, complete with thick descriptions and perhaps some kind of meaningful codings that perhaps even move across the various knives he destroys.
 
noss4 said:
I have nothing more to say on this issue.
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I have actually looked on your site a few times to see if you'd bought and abused a Battle Mistress as promised.

I hope you do spend the money and abuse the knife. I'll be interested in seeing how it holds up to over-the-top usage, complete with vices, bricks, blocks, and hammers.
 
To whom it may concern:

It is better to be thought an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubts.

Bob Mills
 
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