Thanks for comments KarateRick and Tragg. This is on my "next" list as I feel it will make a good choice for camping and hiking plus a defense carry in woods. Hate to mention the money end on any knife or refer to this model as cheap but I think we are getting a decent degree of quality with this knife. Was considering the Sog Seal Pup as an alternative but the Strongarm is my first choice. Building up my collection and shed any crap from the past. Thanks for positive comments. Nice to know before one buys!!
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Difference between High-end and Low-end knives?
- Thread starter MrJim
- Start date
Thanks for comments KarateRick and Tragg. This is on my "next" list as I feel it will make a good choice for camping and hiking plus a defense carry in woods. Hate to mention the money end on any knife or refer to this model as cheap but I think we are getting a decent degree of quality with this knife. Was considering the Sog Seal Pup as an alternative but the Strongarm is my first choice. Building up my collection and shed any crap from the past. Thanks for positive comments. Nice to know before one buys!!
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You can do that. But the main difference in terms of steels is how often you need to re-sharpen. If you use a knife a lot, that might be every day if you like a really sharp knife. You will see fit an finish issues on lower priced knives compared to ones at about 2x the price.
I don't personally see a lot of difference between $200 and $300 street prices. But the $300 number is a bit pricey for me and I seldom even look or consider one that is priced like this (other than fixed blades). I see a pretty good step in overall quality between $50 and under and $100-$125 folders. I find that step worth the price, but not the step to $300.
I am generally pretty comfortable with normal carbon and middle end stainless steels used in knives. I have not allowed myself to purchase a Chris Reeves knife due to the pricing and what I suspect is the overall utility beyond ... the brag factor.
Glad you mentioned the sharpening factor 22. Have heard some steels are tougher to sharpen than others. Mine are Aus-8, 420 HC and the Buck CSAR has 154CM. Might need a more efficient sharpener than the pocket model I got now, especially for the 154CM on the Buck. Heard Lansky has a couple decent models.
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I'm kind of old school with knife sharpening. Tend to use a Norton Combination Bench Stone for ordinary steels and DMT diamond bench "stones" for the harder steels. Have extra fine DMT and often use that to just add just a trace of polish to finish the sharpening routine. A sharp toothy plain edge is okay with me.
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There are strong values to be found in every price bracket, and a lot of garbage in every price bracket as well. The good garbage is just fancier than the cheap garbage. Think of your dollars as being like points that you can assign to various characteristics, where the more points you add the more premium that characteristic gets. Some things increase performance, such as better geometry, steel, heat treatment, etc. while other aspects have only secondary increases like handle material, and others being more a matter of preference, like country of origin or a matter of taste, such as perceived prestige. Yet still, some aspects have zero impact on performance and may even have a negative effect, such as decorative embellishments and precious or exotic materials. You could sink all of your "points" into decorative material and have it be a solid block of pure gold, but it'd be an awful knife. Some (many) of the premium knives on the market are sort of like that. Others put their "points" into functional materials, advanced manufacturing methods, performance-based geometry optimization, etc.
sharp_edge
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This is just like asking the difference between a $10k car and a $50k car, a pair of $50 leather shoes and $300 leather shoes, a $2k engagement ring and a $10k engagement rings. The answer varies depending on the person.
Love the points idea.
It's amazing how many people in this thread are spending $300+ on a knife. Of course, I'm sure those of you who buy expensive, Chris Reeve knives are using your knives much more often and to a higher degree than I use my Rat 1. Someone earlier in this thread said that people buy knives like this sometimes just for bragging rights. IMO there's a price point that is just way too high for a folding knife. This is the point where functionality ends and it becomes simply rediculous. Why would you ever need multiple $500 folding knivese? If you intend to use it heavily, or for bushcraft, then invest into a fixed blade, or a knife not at risk of breaking due to a moving part.
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Personally I mostly spend between $5-50 on knives and tools, and only very rarely go much over $100. But I've spent a lot of time learning what models are the wheat and which ones are the chaff, and my daily carry piece is a solid little $2 polymer handled Italian-made slip joint intended for nautical use. Used to be full serrated with a thick full flat grind on it, and I converted to a plain-edged full hollow grind, with the edge so thin you can flex it with firm pressure from your thumbnail. Despite the fact that it's just 440A steel it takes and holds a decent edge, in part due to the geometry I gave it. Not everyone has that option and not everyone even wants to bother with it, either, but it sure does frame the value question in an interesting way.
I've tried--and still own--plenty of higher end knives, but the more I've learned--especially the more I've learned to rapidly hone an edge--the more I've gravitated towards the budget end. There are tons of very solid performers out there that may not be the latest/greatest steel or exotic handle materials and may not have ultra-precision fit, but they're still well built, well heat treated, and made from steel that's at least cutlery grade and does well enough. It's totally possible to quantify how much better the performance of this or that variable is in a premium knife (usually edge retention or toughness are the touted factors) but the fact is, the performance of those rough-cut gems is well within the required range for my purposes. But my circumstances are not everyone else's, and so there are a multitude of reasons why someone might want or even need (though usually want) something more "advanced" in one or more ways.
I've tried--and still own--plenty of higher end knives, but the more I've learned--especially the more I've learned to rapidly hone an edge--the more I've gravitated towards the budget end. There are tons of very solid performers out there that may not be the latest/greatest steel or exotic handle materials and may not have ultra-precision fit, but they're still well built, well heat treated, and made from steel that's at least cutlery grade and does well enough. It's totally possible to quantify how much better the performance of this or that variable is in a premium knife (usually edge retention or toughness are the touted factors) but the fact is, the performance of those rough-cut gems is well within the required range for my purposes. But my circumstances are not everyone else's, and so there are a multitude of reasons why someone might want or even need (though usually want) something more "advanced" in one or more ways.
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My knives are a very serious matter to me. I only deal with companies that treat knives very seriously. Spyderco and emerson being for example. If i have to pay say $200 then thats what it is. I have no time for poorly made knives. High end and low end comes down to your opinion. I ve seem $35 knives that are great and $200 dollar knives that are garbage.
$100-200 is the "sweet spot" for price vs quality. Get quality steels, warranty, materials, and fit and finish. IMHO, they are mid-range knives.
That said, if you're a modest user and reasonably competent at maintaining your edge a RAT1 will do you just fine.
When you buy a high end knife, you're paying alot for the name. My personal experience is that, from a functionality standpoint, high end knives tend to be rather disappointing.
That said, if you're a modest user and reasonably competent at maintaining your edge a RAT1 will do you just fine.
When you buy a high end knife, you're paying alot for the name. My personal experience is that, from a functionality standpoint, high end knives tend to be rather disappointing.
For me, sharpening is no big deal. I got a $5 sharpener that was on a crazy sale at a Swiss Army sidewalk sale, and I now use it in place of all shaprening stones. Two sides, one carbine one ceramic. Works like a charm and brings it to hair shaving sharp.
Like you said, I feel like a lot of the price is due to the name. It's like any name-brand item; prices are bumped quite a bit just from the name. Of course, there is still a great difference between $40 knives and $200 I'm sure.
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Because I want to support different makers that make a folding knife by hand and pay attention to detail that, to this day, I have not found in any production knife.
The difference between any cheaper knife and a more expensive folding knife is time and attention to detail IMO.
afishhunter
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Buck (modern folders and traditional folders, and some of their fixed blades) regardless of country made, Colt, Rough Rider, Marbles all have knives costing well under $100. WITH A LIFETIME WARRANTY. How can you get a "better" warranty than that?
In my life, I've delt with both.
When I was a young guy, I spent a lot of money on high end knives. Swore by Randall's and other customs. I was convinced that I was carrying the best knife available. I eventually sold them all off after a few very disappointing let downs with them. Then in my middle years while raising a family, I used "low end" cutlery and was very pleasantly surprised at the value and cutting ability of them. I think there is a lot of hype and outright sales bull hockey in the advertisement and promotion of a lot of products, especially knives.
A higher grade steel will cost a few more dollars per knife. Better fit and finish would accout for a few more dollars per knife. But when you get to more that three times the cost of a moderate priced knife, you're buying into the hype and snobbery of the thing. No matter if its a car, gun, or knife, function is the main thing. If it cuts that piece of rope, opened that burlap sack of feed, or strips the wire, then it's as good as it gets. It functioned. It did what it was supposed to do.
I see a lot of talk on this forum about "hard use" knives. I doubt very much that a lot of the people talking about that even know what "hard use" as in hard work really means. I had the opportunity to serve in the army for ten years in the combat engineers. We got to work with people all over the world doing construction projects under all kinds of conditions from North African desert to south east Asian jungle. The local people that were hired for labor were not a moneyed lot, and they showed up with anything from a Douk-Douk to a nameless local made knife by a local blacksmith. Opinels, Mercators, Camillus TL-29's, all were put to some "hard use" that went well past the boundaries that the manufactures ever dreamed of. I saw very few ever broke, in spite of outright abuse.
On the other hand my Randall 14 chipped twice on what I thought was mild use. A knot in a branch did some damage on a cold winter day, and it was an enlightening experience. As a sort of experiment I went back to using the more mundane cutlery I saw locals using. O[pinel's, Douk-Douk, Mora's. After a while of hanging on to the high end stuff, I finally admitted to myself that I didn't need them, and off they went to A.G. Russell's to be sold off. I never looked back.
High end stuff in general is an exercise in oneupmanship, pure and simple. Maybe in a single digit percent is there a real gain in performance, like in cars or aircraft. But in something like a knife, or screw driver, the user will never notice a difference in how it works. That piece of rope is never going to be able to tell if it was severed by a high end knife or an Opinel.
But it it's what you like, then it's worthwhile. It's just like ice cream; if you like rocky road, mint chocolate chip just won't do. If you like scotch, a nice bourbon is a waste of liquor. Buy what you like because that's what you really like. There is no rationalization in spending three or four times the price for bragging rights. The only thing that matters is, is it what you like because that is where your taste is? If so, then fine. But if you're buying it because of the manufactures inflated claims, then you're most likely wasting your money. Way back then, I believed the hype about Randall knives, and later learned that the real world is somewhat different. Buy what you really like, not what you are told you need because it's the best thing in knives since we stopped using flint. You may be surprised at how ell those more mundane knives cut stuff.
When I was a young guy, I spent a lot of money on high end knives. Swore by Randall's and other customs. I was convinced that I was carrying the best knife available. I eventually sold them all off after a few very disappointing let downs with them. Then in my middle years while raising a family, I used "low end" cutlery and was very pleasantly surprised at the value and cutting ability of them. I think there is a lot of hype and outright sales bull hockey in the advertisement and promotion of a lot of products, especially knives.
A higher grade steel will cost a few more dollars per knife. Better fit and finish would accout for a few more dollars per knife. But when you get to more that three times the cost of a moderate priced knife, you're buying into the hype and snobbery of the thing. No matter if its a car, gun, or knife, function is the main thing. If it cuts that piece of rope, opened that burlap sack of feed, or strips the wire, then it's as good as it gets. It functioned. It did what it was supposed to do.
I see a lot of talk on this forum about "hard use" knives. I doubt very much that a lot of the people talking about that even know what "hard use" as in hard work really means. I had the opportunity to serve in the army for ten years in the combat engineers. We got to work with people all over the world doing construction projects under all kinds of conditions from North African desert to south east Asian jungle. The local people that were hired for labor were not a moneyed lot, and they showed up with anything from a Douk-Douk to a nameless local made knife by a local blacksmith. Opinels, Mercators, Camillus TL-29's, all were put to some "hard use" that went well past the boundaries that the manufactures ever dreamed of. I saw very few ever broke, in spite of outright abuse.
On the other hand my Randall 14 chipped twice on what I thought was mild use. A knot in a branch did some damage on a cold winter day, and it was an enlightening experience. As a sort of experiment I went back to using the more mundane cutlery I saw locals using. O[pinel's, Douk-Douk, Mora's. After a while of hanging on to the high end stuff, I finally admitted to myself that I didn't need them, and off they went to A.G. Russell's to be sold off. I never looked back.
High end stuff in general is an exercise in oneupmanship, pure and simple. Maybe in a single digit percent is there a real gain in performance, like in cars or aircraft. But in something like a knife, or screw driver, the user will never notice a difference in how it works. That piece of rope is never going to be able to tell if it was severed by a high end knife or an Opinel.
But it it's what you like, then it's worthwhile. It's just like ice cream; if you like rocky road, mint chocolate chip just won't do. If you like scotch, a nice bourbon is a waste of liquor. Buy what you like because that's what you really like. There is no rationalization in spending three or four times the price for bragging rights. The only thing that matters is, is it what you like because that is where your taste is? If so, then fine. But if you're buying it because of the manufactures inflated claims, then you're most likely wasting your money. Way back then, I believed the hype about Randall knives, and later learned that the real world is somewhat different. Buy what you really like, not what you are told you need because it's the best thing in knives since we stopped using flint. You may be surprised at how ell those more mundane knives cut stuff.
palonej
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I guess if warranty, reliability, pride of ownership and confidence in your knife don't matter to you......then sure, carry a $10 knife.
I favor Benchmade, Spydie and Pro Tech. Each time I needed them, warranty or blade changes, I got a very helpful human on the phone immediately who made sure all my concerns were taken care of.......95% of the time for no charge.
To me.....that makes the prices worth it.
I also love good engineering and attention to detail.......and having a beautiful piece of cutlery in my hand!!
Have I been disappointed??? Sure, but each and every time I got squared away quickly.
YMMV
Joe
I favor Benchmade, Spydie and Pro Tech. Each time I needed them, warranty or blade changes, I got a very helpful human on the phone immediately who made sure all my concerns were taken care of.......95% of the time for no charge.
To me.....that makes the prices worth it.
I also love good engineering and attention to detail.......and having a beautiful piece of cutlery in my hand!!
Have I been disappointed??? Sure, but each and every time I got squared away quickly.
YMMV
Joe