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Dirty knives and the Law.....

E

edrozen

Joined
Mar 2, 2000
Messages
365
Hi, all, I've read on the forums many times that it is wiser to tell a police officer any knife you carry is for work or as a tool. So, I was thinking, it might be a good idea to dirty up our knives a little to help give credibility to such a claim. No, I don't really want to get my knives dirty, but maybe a couple of streak of paint or something similar.....

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EdRozen-On the cutting edge of finding out what the cutting edge is....
 
Better idea. Use your knife.

I would prefer to have a clean knife, so when I score the peel on my grapefruit, I don't taste yesterday's ham sandwich. But if you are really concerned about it, you could simply not clean your knife in between using it. But I would advise using it, rather than just carrying it, and then telling people you use it. Why would you carry a blade if you didn't use it, anyways?


Stryver
 
Originally posted by Stryver:
But I would advise using it, rather than just carrying it, and then telling people you use it. Why would you carry a blade if you didn't use it, anyways?

Oh, I use it, but not really that much. I don't have a job where I need to use it on a regular basis to cut stuff up. And there is the argument that a knife you carry as a defense should not be used, so it will always be fully functional and very sharp if you ever come across an emergency situation.
Click to expand...
 
Endrozen
Where do you keep getting this stuff ??
You ain't gonna fool a whole lot of LEOs....they are not all that stupid.
How old ARE you ?
Sorry....don't mean to be offensive but it gets to be difficult to tell the kids from the adults, here.... any one can be who ever they want.
Disclaimer : I have no problem with posts by young, inexperienced members. But they should be prepared to accept challenges to the validity of their posts.... like the grownups.



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BrianWE
 
Where do you keep getting this stuff ??
You ain't gonna fool a whole lot of LEOs....they are not all that stupid.
How old ARE you ?
Sorry....don't mean to be offensive but it gets to be difficult to tell the kids from the adults, here.... any one can be who ever they want.

I've got a few grey hairs...... And I don't think LEOs are stupid at all. But I do worry about the ramifications of having a knife found on me if I get pulled over for a routine speeding ticket or traffic violation or whatever.
 
I suppose I can only speak about the city I live in but I would assume most cities in the U.S. have similar laws. Pocket knives are legal to carry. There happens to be no length limit. Any knife is illegal if you are involved in a criminal activity.

If a cop pulls you over and you are not breaking the law, why worry about the knife. You do not have to prove any thing or say anything. Unless you are involved in illegal activity in that case you still don't hanve to prove or say any thng.

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Roger Blake
 
From what I was told from many sources is that knife length depends on local laws. Even for folders. If you travel a lot (like I do) this is something you should worry about (I think), because every city or township or whatever is different.
 
Ohio - 2923.12. [prohibits carry and concealment of "any
deadly weapon" except for self-defense, without explicit mention of knives].
- 2923.20 Unlawful transaction in weapons. (A) No person shall... (3) Manufacture, possess for sale, sell, or furnish to any other person other than a law enforcement agency for authorized use in police work, any... switchblade knife, springblade knife, gravity knife, or similar weapon...
Knife laws differ a GREAT deal from state to state. The only way to stay safe is to find the laws for the states in question, and then obey the laws.

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Louis Buccellato
http://www.themartialway.com
Knives, Weapons and equipment. Best prices anywhere.
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"only the paranoid will survive"


[This message has been edited by TheMartialWay (edited 04-29-2000).]
 
Relax. You're worrying about something extremely unlikely. Police cannot "frisk" you without your permission or a warrant. Anything found absent one of these is inadmissable in court. And they don't "frisk" people for routine traffic stops. Nor do they take people to court for possessing a pocket knife.

Just remember to be polite, and DON'T volunteer ANY information AT ALL. You must be PROVEN guilty in a court of law. That means you have to:
A. Be searched with a warrant
B. Be stupid enough to spill your guts when you don't have to.

Besides, even if you ARE found with it, who's going to prove it's not a tool. You must be PROVEN to have "criminal" intent.

I think you're spending too much time worrying about what "could" happen to you. You're not only a "worry wart", but also another example of citizens in a police state.


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George
StarPD
 
I guess we're all different and live in diff. circumstances but I've never had a problem with carrying in close proximimity of leo's. On the other hand I find that I want my tools as close to me as possible, readily accessible and concealed from wandering eyes. I tend to carry a clipped folder on the waistband, clipped into the first beltloop strongside. The belt covers most all of the exposed clip yet readily available and still protected. I find this carry quite nice esp. since the clip has no opportunity to get into trouble if you tend to be active, jumping in and out of cars and other such activities that the clip can sometimes find trouble with otherwise.

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Only perfect practice makes perfect
 
I think edrozen's idea isn't bad. It has at least some merit.

Knife laws vary from state to state and city to city. Some states and cities have knife laws that include blade length limits. Obviously, the best way to be protected from the law is to know what it is and not violate it.

If you do violate the law, either on purpose or by accident, you generally do have something to worry about. Carrying an illegal knife or carrying a legal knife illegally is usually a "weapons" violation and it can be a felony offense.

It's up to the discretion of the police officer that interacts with you whether or not he wants to arrest you for the knife. Often times, the officer will not be familiar with the specific statutes that govern knife use. Of course, the officer can't convict you of anything, but it's his personal decision to charge you. If you're caught carrying a fantasy knife with large serrations and a skull and crossbones on the blade, the officer will be more likely to assume it's for bad deeds than if you're caught carrying a beat up Buck 110 that's seen decades of use.

I ain't saying it's right, but that's what happens.

Remember that, despite what an above post claims, police absolutely can frisk you without your permission or a warrant. In the 1968 decision, Terry v. Ohio, the court said that an officer can stop and frisk someone if he has reason to believe that that person is dangerous. This was the decision that set the rule of thumb for frisking. If an officer frisks you after seeing your knife's pocket clip or the butt of it's handle, the officer would be on very solid legal ground. What you need to frisk someone is a reasonable cause to believe that the person is commiting a crime and that the person is armed.



[This message has been edited by cerulean (edited 05-01-2000).]
 
You really should not worry too much about being caught with a knife. Most Cops will understand the intended use for the knife (a tool). And most cops carry knives anyway.

HOWEVER:
StarPD's notion that you can not be patted down without a warrant or permission is FALSE.

During an encounter with a police officer (where police action is being taken), He/She can pat you down for weapons for officer safty (but he/she must be able to articulate why). This is called a Terry stop. And I know that most of you are thinking that your knife is not a weapon, but it can be used that way. I know a lot of things can be weapons, like a pen, scissors, ect, but guns and knives are what cops are generally looking for. And any weapon found during the pat down is %100 admissable. I have encountered several people with knives clipped to their pocket. What I will do is take the knife and hold it until the encounter is over (I always give the knife back, even autos but I do explain the laws to the person regarding autos).
Now I must also say that I have never patted anyone down during a "normal" traffic stop (ie speeding ticket and the such). But I am well within the law to do so if I feel the need.

Thanks,
Rich
 
Just keep your mouth shut, be polite and you'll be OK.
wink.gif
 
Ohio - 2923.12. [prohibits carry and concealment of "any deadly weapon" except for self-defense, without explicit mention of knives].
Click to expand...

Louis, are you sure you got that correct? This law implies that it is perfectly ok to carry any deadly weapon for self defense purposes. Sweet.
smile.gif
I can carry just about any deadly weapon in Ohio and if I'm found with it, I can just quote this law, mention that it's for self defense and get away with it.
smile.gif
 
Steelwolf, good thought. There are actually some cities that allow open carry of weapons. I heard second hand that a friend of my friend's carried a Katana and a .44 Magnum in plain site in the city of Massilon just for kicks one day, because it is legal. The problem is local law. And NO ONE AROUND HERE seems to know what it is. I have a friend who has called around to 6 different govt. offices and has yet to get a specific answer. Damn annoying if you ask me. This same friend said that Akron's limit is under 2 1/2" folder.
 
Grab a branch from a tree, any tree (especially one with a tree-hugger chained to it) and sit down with a tall glass of lemonade. Then open your knife, remember keep the blade pointed away from you, and start whittling. Doesn't matter if you end up with nothing but a smooth pointy stick, your heart and soul will thank you.

smile.gif
Brandon

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"You know how dumb the average person is? Well by definition, half of 'em are dumber than that..."
 
RJ: you are absolutely correct. Any attempts to hide the knife will be seen as a furtive gesture, and will surely get you pulled out and frisked. At this point any officer, especially one alone on a dark street in a high crime area, can easily justify the frisk as long as the stop is legal. This does not require a warrant. It is just an officer safety issue.
Personally, If I find a knife during a frisk, I hold it untill the encounter is finished. I then return it unless the knife is illegal in MA., being double edged or automatic, for example. I do prefer to remove it from the person's pocket myself, rather than take any chances. I may find issue with a guy walking around with a 20" machete , but your average folder will not raise too many questions. It is best to be up front about it, and tell the officer you are carrying a knife if he askes you to submit to a pat-frisk.
As to the cleanliness of the knife being an issue, I use my Sebenza often, and always make sure it's clean afterwards, as I imagine most people would. I think cleanliness is a non-issue.
Many police officers do carry knives on duty, I carry an Emerson CQC-7 in a pouch on my belt, and an Emerson commander clipped inside my right pants pocket while on duty.

Joe

[This message has been edited by Joe Cop (edited 05-01-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Joe Cop (edited 05-01-2000).]
 
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