-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Dirty knives and the Law.....
- Thread starter edrozen
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 8, 1998
- Messages
- 770
And why not just buy a rusty old knife at a garage sale.....then you can say it is a family heirloom and the nice policeman will be so touched he will forget why he stopped you in the first place.
Yeah, right.
Get real, fellas.
------------------
BrianWE
Yeah, right.
Get real, fellas.
------------------
BrianWE
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 15,226
Leave a liberal schmearing of peanut butter and jelly on your knife at all times... say it's from your lunch...
Spark
------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
Insert witty quip here
Spark
------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
Insert witty quip here
- Joined
- Dec 1, 1999
- Messages
- 452
Actually,
Brian Edginton has every right to post in this thread. I for one, enjoy his level headed curmudgeon like responses. He will be the first one to say that he is an old curmudgeon who has no interest in political correctness. But then, thats why I like him.
Jim
Brian Edginton has every right to post in this thread. I for one, enjoy his level headed curmudgeon like responses. He will be the first one to say that he is an old curmudgeon who has no interest in political correctness. But then, thats why I like him.
Jim
Hunter, I suggest both you and Edgington take another good look at BladeForums philosophy, and here it is, for your convenience:
It's our philisophy- Be nice to others and they will be nice to you. It's a proven one as well- when there aren't attacks and nastiness, the level of discussion and the sense of community always increases.
This is not to say that you cannot disagree with anything that you see posted. Just don't be nasty about it. {{Back up your point of view with facts, logic and reason)) and you will see the same kind of responses to your own statements.
***Show common courtesy, and it will be more than shown to you.
It's our philisophy- Be nice to others and they will be nice to you. It's a proven one as well- when there aren't attacks and nastiness, the level of discussion and the sense of community always increases.
This is not to say that you cannot disagree with anything that you see posted. Just don't be nasty about it. {{Back up your point of view with facts, logic and reason)) and you will see the same kind of responses to your own statements.
***Show common courtesy, and it will be more than shown to you.
A fine question - that of having two or more knives.
Suppose I were to carry a matching pair of left and right handed Spyderco folders, one in each pocket... Is there really a legitimate reason anyone'd beleive - or would you be casting yourself as a knive-wielding maniac?
Suppose I were to carry a matching pair of left and right handed Spyderco folders, one in each pocket... Is there really a legitimate reason anyone'd beleive - or would you be casting yourself as a knive-wielding maniac?
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2000
- Messages
- 3,221
Right now I'm carrying two Benchmades (plus assorted odds and ends
). A 705 in my left pocket and a 730 in my right pocket. Since they are significantly different knives, they are useful for different tasks. The 705 if for lightweight tasks, where precision is important, due to its small size and thin blade (ie, sharp, thin edge) and the polished edge I put on it. The 730 is larger and sharpened to a much coarser edge, for cutting fibrous materials, and other large tasks, such as seatbelts, etc.
If the need comes up, I'll use either or both for defense, but that is not likely, so they are primarily for utility. If a LEO ever asks me if I would use them as such, I will be honest and frank, and also point out that anything can become a weapon, if necessary (with the good examply being the pen I carry).
Come September, I'll have a pretty much purely defensive knife, and I will not hesitate to speak out for my rights. I think the most poisonous thing to the responsible weapon owners here are the people who act like taking an interest in their own defense is something to be ashamed of. I don't want anyone with an attitude like that to have a weapon.
--JB
P.S. sorry to rant; if this is innapropriate here, feel free to edit my post.
------------------
e_utopia@hotmail.com
If the need comes up, I'll use either or both for defense, but that is not likely, so they are primarily for utility. If a LEO ever asks me if I would use them as such, I will be honest and frank, and also point out that anything can become a weapon, if necessary (with the good examply being the pen I carry).
Come September, I'll have a pretty much purely defensive knife, and I will not hesitate to speak out for my rights. I think the most poisonous thing to the responsible weapon owners here are the people who act like taking an interest in their own defense is something to be ashamed of. I don't want anyone with an attitude like that to have a weapon.
--JB
P.S. sorry to rant; if this is innapropriate here, feel free to edit my post.
------------------
e_utopia@hotmail.com
- Joined
- Dec 1, 1999
- Messages
- 452
Edrozen,
I have no problem with
being civil and backing up
my opinions with facts. Do a search of my posts and
you will find that out. I
have even called a few
members to the carpet who I thought were out of line.
Brian Edginton has been in
the knife cyber community
for some time and posts on
a number of different
boards. I have come to
enjoy his straight shooting style and wouldn't consider him someone who is only
here to be a troll or start flames. With over 6000
members we need to be
tolerant of different types of writing styles and
personalities. Not
everyone is the touchy
feely type. Does that mean they have nothing to
contribute? Certainly not. I don't think you feel
that way either. (Correct
me if I'm wrong.) I don't
always agree with what Tim
Herman posts either but
this place would be
somewhat less interesting
without him. Much like it
has been since Ghostsix was banned. Did he deserve it? You bet he did. But that
doesn't change the fact
that his posts always left
you thinking. Some of the best info is dispensed in the controversial threads. Check out the Maddog threads for proof. I don't always enjoy the name calling, but I do thorougly enjoy all of the different personalities here. If everyone was civil all the time, Bladeforums would be a boring place to visit.
Take care,
Jim
I have no problem with
being civil and backing up
my opinions with facts. Do a search of my posts and
you will find that out. I
have even called a few
members to the carpet who I thought were out of line.
Brian Edginton has been in
the knife cyber community
for some time and posts on
a number of different
boards. I have come to
enjoy his straight shooting style and wouldn't consider him someone who is only
here to be a troll or start flames. With over 6000
members we need to be
tolerant of different types of writing styles and
personalities. Not
everyone is the touchy
feely type. Does that mean they have nothing to
contribute? Certainly not. I don't think you feel
that way either. (Correct
me if I'm wrong.) I don't
always agree with what Tim
Herman posts either but
this place would be
somewhat less interesting
without him. Much like it
has been since Ghostsix was banned. Did he deserve it? You bet he did. But that
doesn't change the fact
that his posts always left
you thinking. Some of the best info is dispensed in the controversial threads. Check out the Maddog threads for proof. I don't always enjoy the name calling, but I do thorougly enjoy all of the different personalities here. If everyone was civil all the time, Bladeforums would be a boring place to visit.
Take care,
Jim
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2000
- Messages
- 1,693
i would be interested in having one of the LEO members chime in about carrying more than one knife.we knife nuts know there are legitimate reasons for doing this, but what about the LE community? thanks
One of my biggest problem (and why I feel the need to post in the first place) is because I normally carry fairly new looking knives. Mostly because I don't have a need to use them very hard. I also try to avoid them very hard so I can prolong the life of the knife. I have a couple less expensive ones I use at work (BM ascent, Gerber EZ out, CS Voyager). And yes, I am anal about using my "outside of work" daily carries. Most of these knives are, in fact, quite nasty looking, but they are still some of the best production knives around.
And Mr.Utopia, I agree with you. I am not ashamed of carrying an implement of self-defense. However, as I expressed before, I would prefer to avoid any unpleasentries with our judicial system.
------------------
EdRozen-On the cutting edge of finding out what the cutting edge is....
And Mr.Utopia, I agree with you. I am not ashamed of carrying an implement of self-defense. However, as I expressed before, I would prefer to avoid any unpleasentries with our judicial system.
------------------
EdRozen-On the cutting edge of finding out what the cutting edge is....
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2000
- Messages
- 4,798
It's a sad commentary on society today, Ed.
If I am frisked in the street, and the cops come up with 1 pair of chopsticks, 1 ball point pen, a phillips screwdriver, a set of car keys and a Spyderco Military, then I am carrying a weapon. Minus the Spydie, my pockets are just full of tools. Never mind that I can kill a half dozen people just as easily with the other stuff, that knife is a weapon.
Now, if I am asked before hand if I am carrying any weapons, what do I say? "Yes, officer, This knife, these keys, this screwdriver, these chopsticks and this extra shoelace"? Nope. I tell them the chopsticks are a weapon and they'll laugh in my face.
On the other hand, If I tell the LEOs "No" and they search and find the Spydie, I was lying to them. Blah, blah, blah, knife is a tool blah blah.... I told them I didn't have any weapons when I did, that's the way they'll see it.
Paint splotches, glue, chunks of tape...I don't think so. Clean or dirty, that knife in your pocket is a weapon. Sad but true, sir.
If I am frisked in the street, and the cops come up with 1 pair of chopsticks, 1 ball point pen, a phillips screwdriver, a set of car keys and a Spyderco Military, then I am carrying a weapon. Minus the Spydie, my pockets are just full of tools. Never mind that I can kill a half dozen people just as easily with the other stuff, that knife is a weapon.
Now, if I am asked before hand if I am carrying any weapons, what do I say? "Yes, officer, This knife, these keys, this screwdriver, these chopsticks and this extra shoelace"? Nope. I tell them the chopsticks are a weapon and they'll laugh in my face.
On the other hand, If I tell the LEOs "No" and they search and find the Spydie, I was lying to them. Blah, blah, blah, knife is a tool blah blah.... I told them I didn't have any weapons when I did, that's the way they'll see it.
Paint splotches, glue, chunks of tape...I don't think so. Clean or dirty, that knife in your pocket is a weapon. Sad but true, sir.
If you are being patted down and the officer asks if you have a weapon, (if you are carring a knife) say YES. I agree that knives are mainly tools. But they are also weapons. I know that a pen can be a weapon too but when was the last time you saw a tactical pen or tactical chop sticks? The monment that you are being patted down is the wrong time to start a debate over the uses of a knife(ie. tool or weapon). You will find that if you are upfront about it, things go alot smoother.
As for having more than one knife, I have no problem with it. I stopped a guy and he told me that he was carrying 3 knives. I held them until the encounter was over and gave them back. Just be calm and relaxed and explain why you have more than one knife. It has been my experience that cops have other things to worry about than someone carrying a few knives.
Rich
As for having more than one knife, I have no problem with it. I stopped a guy and he told me that he was carrying 3 knives. I held them until the encounter was over and gave them back. Just be calm and relaxed and explain why you have more than one knife. It has been my experience that cops have other things to worry about than someone carrying a few knives.
Rich
- Joined
- Nov 8, 1998
- Messages
- 770
Thanks, Hunter......I think....
Sorry Endrozen. I am not, really, picking on you. Its just that the specious concept of your original post is like a red rag to a curmudgeon.
Carrying a knife as a weapon (albeit, a part-time one) is a responsibility you have to accept.
(Same for posts in a "public" forum. )
You are not going to fool the LEO....he has heard it all before and is going to decide on the "weaponness" of the tool based on, partly, on his experience...mainly on his prejudices. Just like any other human being.
And I should go away because I have had my say ? Just how many posts by an individual member do you allow on your threads ?
But I do apologize for my tone in my first post. It was uncalled for....the sentiments stand.
------------------
BrianWE
Sorry Endrozen. I am not, really, picking on you. Its just that the specious concept of your original post is like a red rag to a curmudgeon.
Carrying a knife as a weapon (albeit, a part-time one) is a responsibility you have to accept.
(Same for posts in a "public" forum. )
You are not going to fool the LEO....he has heard it all before and is going to decide on the "weaponness" of the tool based on, partly, on his experience...mainly on his prejudices. Just like any other human being.
And I should go away because I have had my say ? Just how many posts by an individual member do you allow on your threads ?
But I do apologize for my tone in my first post. It was uncalled for....the sentiments stand.
------------------
BrianWE
Edginton, I agree with Hunter's second post. A good argument isn't an argument without an arguer. Enough said. I'm glad we have a better understanding.
You mentioned police prejudices. That's exactly what I was trying to appeal to..... I thought a more used knife would look like less of a weapon..... I'd like to hear more about your experiences and opinions are of any specific or general prejudices. thanks.
Also, I do realize I might sound a bit naive in asking many various questions. But I am new to the whole knife culture. And I am as about as civilian and unconnected with any law enforcement agency as you can get, so I am having to think in new ways.
[This message has been edited by edrozen (edited 05-04-2000).]
You mentioned police prejudices. That's exactly what I was trying to appeal to..... I thought a more used knife would look like less of a weapon..... I'd like to hear more about your experiences and opinions are of any specific or general prejudices. thanks.
Also, I do realize I might sound a bit naive in asking many various questions. But I am new to the whole knife culture. And I am as about as civilian and unconnected with any law enforcement agency as you can get, so I am having to think in new ways.
[This message has been edited by edrozen (edited 05-04-2000).]
- Joined
- Nov 8, 1998
- Messages
- 770
Edrozen
(I think I spelt it correctly, this time
)
I don't have any special insight into police thinking, either. Other than being an avid listener to the communications of my local police (in rural Australia)
One thing I have learnt is that they are courageous human beings who willingly place their lives on the line in the name of duty.
Oh, yeah...and they can be bigotted and prejudiced in many ways. Their attitude towards a suspect, often, seems to nosedive when radio tells them the person "is known to the system".
Seems the best defense is to have a clean record and to be lacking in "charisma".....a euphemism for having a "criminal look".
But, if an LEO accepts your story that the soiled tac folder is for peeling fruit because of food stains....it ain't because of the stains. It is because he doesn't WANT to arrest you. THAT is the secret....don't make them WANT to arrest you. Many people do. They, usually, get arrested.
But it does continue to amaze me that their warrant checks reveal so many people with REALLY long records of conviction (52 was the longest I have heard) are still walking the streets and are "not wanted".
Might make me a bit sour towards people of charisma, too.
anyway, peace!
------------------
BrianWE
(I think I spelt it correctly, this time
I don't have any special insight into police thinking, either. Other than being an avid listener to the communications of my local police (in rural Australia)
One thing I have learnt is that they are courageous human beings who willingly place their lives on the line in the name of duty.
Oh, yeah...and they can be bigotted and prejudiced in many ways. Their attitude towards a suspect, often, seems to nosedive when radio tells them the person "is known to the system".
Seems the best defense is to have a clean record and to be lacking in "charisma".....a euphemism for having a "criminal look".
But, if an LEO accepts your story that the soiled tac folder is for peeling fruit because of food stains....it ain't because of the stains. It is because he doesn't WANT to arrest you. THAT is the secret....don't make them WANT to arrest you. Many people do. They, usually, get arrested.
But it does continue to amaze me that their warrant checks reveal so many people with REALLY long records of conviction (52 was the longest I have heard) are still walking the streets and are "not wanted".
Might make me a bit sour towards people of charisma, too.
anyway, peace!
------------------
BrianWE
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2000
- Messages
- 3,221
Well, based on the attitudes of the LEOs I know, the best thing to say when asked for weapons would be "I have a knife" (adjust for multiple). That is assuming that it is a 'dual-purpose' knife. You have not implicated yourself as to carrying a weapon, and you have not made the officer have reason to assume you have criminal intent by lying. If I was carrying a knife which is only a weapon (Hossom Millenium Black, when I get it), I would be straightforward and answer "Yes," because I never want to have to get into the 'is it or isn't' argument with an officer who is standing there deciding my fate.
The biggest thing any officer looks for is whether you seem like you are dangerous (as hinted at in one of the posts just above this one). Being polite, honest, and not acting like you've done this a hundred times before and are bored with it lend credence to you simply being a safety-minded citizen, and not a criminal. The officer is not looking to arrest you. They do not have quotas. Actually, they have massive amounts of paperwork every time they arrest someone, so your average LEO is hoping you will not some any sign that you should be arrested. And, move in slow motion. In this day-and-age, officers are wary of quick motion, so pretend you are moving in water, or something to that effect.
Just to re-state myself, BE POLITE! Every officer I know (and I know a lot of 'em) says that is the first thing they look for when talking to someone on the street.
--JB
------------------
e_utopia@hotmail.com
The biggest thing any officer looks for is whether you seem like you are dangerous (as hinted at in one of the posts just above this one). Being polite, honest, and not acting like you've done this a hundred times before and are bored with it lend credence to you simply being a safety-minded citizen, and not a criminal. The officer is not looking to arrest you. They do not have quotas. Actually, they have massive amounts of paperwork every time they arrest someone, so your average LEO is hoping you will not some any sign that you should be arrested. And, move in slow motion. In this day-and-age, officers are wary of quick motion, so pretend you are moving in water, or something to that effect.
Just to re-state myself, BE POLITE! Every officer I know (and I know a lot of 'em) says that is the first thing they look for when talking to someone on the street.
--JB
------------------
e_utopia@hotmail.com
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2000
- Messages
- 546
And if you are in New York City, show them your knife, but DO NOT PULL OUT YOUR WALLET.
Amadou Diallo made that mistake.
Just so you know that this post isn't just a facetious comment on the trigger happy NYPD, it is a prime exxample of scared cops seeing what they want to see. If you present yourself as potentially dangerous, you will be treated as if you are.
Hopefully not in the same manner as Mr. D...
Amadou Diallo made that mistake.
Just so you know that this post isn't just a facetious comment on the trigger happy NYPD, it is a prime exxample of scared cops seeing what they want to see. If you present yourself as potentially dangerous, you will be treated as if you are.
Hopefully not in the same manner as Mr. D...
RJ (and others):
If a cop asks you if you have a weapon on you, and you have a knife, say "No, but I do have this knife(s) in my pocket)." If a cop pulled me over, and I had a .22 rifle in my car, and was asked if I had a weapon, I would reply similarly. The .22 is not a weapon in my mind (Or any other firearm), but it is soemthing I should let the officer know about if he is looking for dangerous things.
I can say I've had a positive reaction the one time I was in a situation faced with this question, and I did answer as listed above. The Officer took the native riding in my pocket out (I never bothered to remember the swisstool in the belt sheath, and he didn't seem to care either), and when he was done with me, he gave it back. I have no problems with this, and was rather happy (plus the fact that I was very stoopid and very lucky in that instance).
If a LEO asks if you have a weapon, and you have whatever_sharp_implement riding in yu front pocket, don't say 'No.' and then leave it at that. You will be in more trouble if they notice the knife at some later point. Say no, and then point out things that may worry them.
Stryver
If a cop asks you if you have a weapon on you, and you have a knife, say "No, but I do have this knife(s) in my pocket)." If a cop pulled me over, and I had a .22 rifle in my car, and was asked if I had a weapon, I would reply similarly. The .22 is not a weapon in my mind (Or any other firearm), but it is soemthing I should let the officer know about if he is looking for dangerous things.
I can say I've had a positive reaction the one time I was in a situation faced with this question, and I did answer as listed above. The Officer took the native riding in my pocket out (I never bothered to remember the swisstool in the belt sheath, and he didn't seem to care either), and when he was done with me, he gave it back. I have no problems with this, and was rather happy (plus the fact that I was very stoopid and very lucky in that instance).
If a LEO asks if you have a weapon, and you have whatever_sharp_implement riding in yu front pocket, don't say 'No.' and then leave it at that. You will be in more trouble if they notice the knife at some later point. Say no, and then point out things that may worry them.
Stryver