Dirty knives and the Law.....

Yeah, that sounds good, Stryver. If the officer asks, "Do you have any weapons?" A good response would be, "No, but I do have a pocket knife in my [wherever] pocket." Of course, if you're carrying a 9" Bowie in a shoulder rig, this response might seem a little silly, but it should work with any folder or small fixed blade.

I'm guessing you'd also probably want to let the officer remove the knife from your person by himself. If he says, "Do you have any weapons?" It would probably be a bad idea to say, "Yeah... RIGHT HERE!" as you quickly draw your knife.
wink.gif
 
First, take the steps to find out the laws as they pertain to you. Know the state and municipal laws- and obey them. As an example, I live in the metro Denver area. Colorado allows for blade lengths of 3.5 inches. Several municipalities restrict blade length to 3.25 inches. I subsequently keep my every day knives at 3.25 inches or less. There is no room for controversy, that way.

Second, as long as the knives in question meet any legal requirements you discover above, the officers will not care. I'm assuming you are not drawing their attention by criminal action, at this point. I would not test this theory by stating your knife or knives are there for defensive purposes, though.

Third, one knife or two, who cares? If you are not doing anything wrong, the police don't care. Important note- it is up to the police, not you, as to whether or not you are doing anything wrong.

Fourth, ALWAYS let a LEO know you have a knife. Especially if you are nervous about it. The officer will appreciate it.

Hope this helps out,
Erik
 
I disagree with Stryver. Most Cops will look at a knife as a potential weapon. Yes they also look at them as tools but when asked to classify a knife, Most cops will call them weapons first. DO NOT say "No I don't have a weapon but I do have a knife." You will come across as a smart a$$. And that is the last thing you want to do. The moment that you are being patted down is not the time for the weapon/tool debate. The officer is obviously concerned enough to pat you down, they are thinking about their safety not the correct classification of a knife (ie weapon/tool). Trust me, I know.
After the encounter is over (assuming that you are not being arrested), ask the cop his/her opinion and go from there. I have seen it go down this way several times and have yet to see any problems develop.

Rich
 
My 2 cents:

I totally agree with RJ's way of looking at this situation. The only thing I can stress is to make sure what you are carrying on your person is LEGAL. That way you will bypass all the legality issues & headaches which follow them. I live in PA & have a CCW. The weapons laws are REALLY good here as long as you are licensed. I travel between the Tri-State area quite a bit, PA, NJ & NY. I also make sure to carry legal blades when out of state. I leave the firearms & large double edged blades for carry in my home state.

RJ,

How far is Lansdale from Bensalem? Maybe we can get together one of these days & talk/oggle some knives... ^_^

------------------
Attila


[This message has been edited by Attila (edited 05-04-2000).]
 
Attila, I also like PA's laws. Although it would be nice to be able to carry an auto, but we can at least own them. Lansdale is about 1/2 hour from Bensalem. I work next to Norristown. I live less than a mile from the Montgomery mall.

Rich
 
RJ,

Yeah, I can see the love for autos. I like some of them myself, but I'm mostly a FB kind of guy
wink.gif


It's cool that we are in the same area. I'll shoot you an email & maybe we can get together one of these days.


------------------
Attila
 
RJ:

I've never been patted down, so I can't vouch for the change in tension that would come with that. I have been asked if I carried any weapons. I have replied "No, but I have a knife in my pocket". Actually, I think my precise words were, "What kinds of things are you looking for, Sir?" And his reply was, something to the effect of knives and guns. Then I pointed out the knife in my pocket. I did, at that time, completely blank about the swisstool on my belt. I know he saw it when he removed the knife, so I guess neither of us were concerned about it.

The officer seemed not unhappy about the course of things, at least regarding the knife. And he gave it back. I do not know if that was the best way for me to respond, but I don't think it was the worst, and I will act similarly in the future, should the need arise.


Stryver
 
Stryver,
It's not that your response is bad, it's just that I would do it differently. I know alot of cops who will bust your balls if they think that you are giving them lip. If you way works, go for it.

Rich
 
I haven't seen many posts from LEO's on this topic so here is my two cents from seven years of road patrol in South Florida. I never arrested anyone for CARRYING a knife. Big, small, fixed or folder. I HAVE arrested people for improper display and use of knives. In one situation I was present when a knife (actually 18" cane cutting blade on a 4 foot pole)carrying bad guy was shot for swinging the thing at my partner. Use and intent make all the difference. The suggestions about being polite are valid points. Your average street cop has coming home from the shift in one piece as a major concern. As a matter of information, back when I was on the job, Florida State Statutes 790.01 (Carring Concealed Weapons) covered "--dirk, pistol, metallic knuckles, slung shot, billie or other weapon, EXCEPT a common POCKET KNIFE--". The definition of a pocket knife was not explained. When I became a shift commander, I encouraged my men to not get arrest happy when finding pocket knives on otherwise peaceful citizens. Be safe (and nice) not sorry.

Bubba
 
I am very interested in the subject of encounters with the police and carrying a knife or knives. In Texas, we have a maximum legal knife length of 5 1/2 inches. While there are some knives, regardless of blade length that are not legal to carry, many are.

I would be interested in responses from any police officers out there about how they determine whether or not a knife blade is of legal length. Specifically, in your jurisdiction, how is the length to be measured? This is especially critical for folding blades or fixed bladed knives where some of all of the blade is inside the handle. To me, the reasonable way to measure the length of a blade is from the tip of the point to the place where the blade enters the handle.

Thanks.
 
Rick:

There is much confusion over this. There has been one court case at least where the judge ruled that the measuring be in the best manner for the defendant.

To highlight the confusion, go look at knife-makers measurements. I have a Tanto from Cold Steel. It is six inches. I tried to purchase, not long ago, a sheath for it. The sheath fit a blade six and one half inches long. In the time between the making of my blade and now, they switched from measuring hilt-to-tip to measuring the sharpened portion.

Be nice to the cops, and you shouldn't have a problem.


Stryver
 
I'm a LEO in E.Tenn. & I have never arrested anyone for possessing a knife. I have charged people with carrying arms because they had a knife, but it's usually a companion charge, never the primary charge.
If I ask somebody if they have a weapon, I want them to tell me about any knife they have on their person. But I DON'T want them to reach for it to hand to me. I would prefer to be shot, than stabbed, personally.

Let the officer retrieve the knife, IMO.

I have also relieved certain individuals for carrying obviously illegal knives. But haven't charged them for carrying. (The couple of instances this has occurred, the person was obviously better off without the blade, as well as the general public!)

I personally can't recall an officer around here arresting somebody Simply for having a knife on them. Maybe we're laid back here in Teennessee!

mark
 
I've been pulled over many times. I've been frisked on more than one occasion. I've NEVER had an officer ask me if I was carrying a weapon. It has always been phrased along the lines, "Do you have anything I should know about?" I've always told them about any knives I was carrying, and always had them returned. Even the time I had to point out a specific knife to him 3 times before he found it.(after he frisked me, btw) then dropped it on the ground. Later another officer came by and commented something to the effect, "Look what he tossed out of the car." (being the dangerous man I am, I rated 3 patrol cars, a sargent, and 2 detective cars on this occasion).

In all these instance, I've only once been asked why I'm carrying a knife. I answered a bit flippantly a bit seriously, "In case I need to cut something." After everything was said and done, I got the knives back. They have never been an issue.

By the way, I live in Soouthern California, and all the knives were folders, mostly Spydies.

Just be upfront, and don't turn it into an issue, and hopefully, the LEO won't turn it into an issue either.

Dave

------------------
No man with a good car needs to be justified.
 
Thanks for the post. I for one would like to hear from more police officers here about knives related to their duties.

Most of those here who are police officers tend to downplay the possession of knives by those they have stopped - especially legal knives.

But the one curious thing that I have noticed it the use of the word "weapon" when referring to a knife. I for one consider MOST knives "tools" not weapons because I use them as tools and I think that most people do also. Now, yes, a knife CAN be a weapon and some are specifically designed as weapons, but the greatest majority of those out there carried by citizens are "tools".

Why is it that many police officers and others refer to knives as "weapons"? I carry smaller pocketknives that I know for a fact are legal to carry in my jurisdiction, and if asked by a police officer if I had any weapons on me, I would likely reply "no" but if asked if I had a knife on me then I would reply "yes". I would have a problem with anyone who said I lied for answering no to the question because I don't consider the knives I carry weapons.

The problem is terminology, opinion and interpretation. Most police officers are level headed and reasonable and usually VERY polite. Most understand that many people carry knives for legitimate purposes and they pose no more danger than a pen or pencil.

I think that anyone is entitled to be concerned with their own safety - but not at the risk of interferring with the rights and legal activities of others. If a person poses no obvious danger to a police officer then I think that they should be treated acdordingly. I don't ask persons that I stop and talk to if they are armed, or carrying guns, knives, or "weapons". Nor do I ask people to keep their hands where I can see them, etc. And I have to admit that I have a problem with the police doing so unless there is clear probable cause to do so. But I also understand their business and it is dangerous.

My feeling is that if people try to be familiar with the law and that both citizens and the police are polite to each other, there will be few problems.
 
Well, pretty much any tool can also be a weapon, but knives are specifically very good at making that 'transition.' LEOs put their lives on the line every day to protect yours, so cut them a little slack and be extra-nice to them; they deserve that conisderation. Given the risk they take, it is more than reasonable to ask you about anything that you are carrying which could injure them, and to ask you to keep your hands in the open. With the state of society today, an LEO cannot simply assume that people will not attempt to shoot, etc. him/her. I've been pulled over a couple of times, and I always made it a point to keep one hand on the top of the wheel and the other on the window frame, where they could be seen easily. It is simple courtesy not to give the officer extra reason to fear some psycho with a vendetta, in a time when even small-town departments are buying vests.

--JB

------------------
e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
Anyone interested in frisking may want to go here: http://lawschool.lexis.com/emanuel/crimproc/crimpro03.htm It's an in-depth look at constitutional law and warrantless searches. You'll want to scroll down to section IX: STOP-AND-FRISK AND OTHER BRIEF DETENTION. They also talk about vehicle stops and frisks here.

It's interesting that an officer doesn't even need "probable cause" to frisk someone; all they need is a "reasonable suspicion". Regardless, I personally don't have a problem with frisks. There are very strict regulations regarding how and when a frisk can occur and frisking directly protects the officer's safety.
 
By the way ladies and gents bullet proof vest that is most of them wont stop a knife. It will stop bollets and they tell you on the vest what callabur bullet they will stop. Only some vest are designed to stop a knife. So thhis is another concern for the LEO's to worry about. Then you have to remember that they deal with people in the worst kind of situations even good people haveing a bad day.Cut them some slack and they will usualy do the same.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top