Disappointed by ZT 560

[GatorFlash1]

Yes, I get your point. And if you are going to restrict yourself to owning just one or two pocket knives, it certainly argues for buying a well-engineered knife at the outset . . . particularly if you're planning to pass it down as an heirloom piece. Looking at the broad landscape of production knives, I'd feel pretty comfortable recommending a ZT knife as a candidate. YMMV.

Did you ever send your pictures of the grooves to the engineering wizards at ZT and ask for an explanation? I'd sure like to hear their spin on the subject, pun intended.

 

[craytab]

I dont know why u seem to take this so personally, or why u seem to white knight it against all the possible trolls in the world but ur coming across just as bad.

You will have to forgive me if I don't care how I come across. The facts are simple here. Look at all the OPs posts.

We can have a discussion about this "issue" but we don't need pictures of tanks on unicycles or south park dorks in front of a computer with a ZT or comparisons of knife collecting to glass slippers or claims like "dude, there's no way that can be smooth bro". Why not ask kniferbro if it is smooth rather than claiming his knife can't be smooth. We need personal experience to back up assertions made (remember the OP has none, just funny pictures).

I'll share my experience. The ZTs with bearing I own have no problems. I didn't notice if the two 0560s or 801 I own have "tracks" made in the titanium when I had them apart. My 0562cf has served me well with flawless action and no play. That said, my 550 with washers is almost as smooth as the 0562cf and more smooth than my 0560s or 801.

 

[benchwarmer380]

Knfebro's picture is a prime example that it has occurred and could happen to all 560's when used on a daily basis. Is it something that should be corrected? I think so. Many knife makers and companies foresaw it as being a problem and designed or included a hardened surface for there bearings to ride on.

Don't get me wrong, I understand your concern for wanting your knife to last and not wear out. However, you are using his pictures as proof of a problem that no one on BladeForums have heard before and at the same time ignoring his testimony that the knife is still solid.

 

[GatorFlash1]

I've got folders that ride on phosphor bronze washers that flip as well and open as smoothly as my folders with ball bearing pivots. As far as I'm concerned, it's mostly a matter of personal preference.

Dumb question-What knives other than flipper have the ball bearings?

I edc a Gayle Bradley and am not that familiar with flippers.

 

[craytab]

Knfebro's picture is a prime example that it has occurred and could happen to all 560's when used on a daily basis. Is it something that should be corrected? I think so. Many knife makers and companies foresaw it as being a problem and designed or included a hardened surface for there bearings to ride on.

You know that isn't a 0560 right? A prime example of what could happen? Okay then.

 

[benchwarmer380]

Dumb question-What knives other than flipper have the ball bearings?
I edc a Gayle Bradley and am not that familiar with flippers.

Don't know of any productions off the top of my head, but I have folders from Alan Davis and Larry Withrow that each run on bearings. Both just use thumb studs and they are smooooooth. Especially the Davis.

 

[mqqn]

I will go with the much ado about nothing, as we have seen from the bashers for years here at BF.

Glad you recognize this horrific flaw in the ZT0560 before thousands of people bought them and used them for cutting for several years.

Glad you know nothing about metals and design.

Seek the Chinese knife of your dreams.

Oh - and perhaps look up the term "work hardening". Read about "soft" titanium.

I am going back to the real world now.

best

mqqn

 

[155440]

I agree that we probably would have heard this come up a time or two.

I do appreciate the discussion but it's kind of a stretch to claim disappointment in something that has yet to and may or may not occur.

From an engineering standpoint, it does seem like a design flaw albeit a minor one. I highly doubt anyone who owns this knife will encounter any issues caused by what the original poster mentioned.

 

[brandoak]

Well on the KVT system technically the race is the blue nylon the bearings sit in....so yes its better, it keeps them separate and aids in lubrication. What I think your referring to as a race is the horrible grooves cut by the bearings into the “race seat or pocket”..

Why should it be corrected if it's not a problem? Don't break it if it ain't fixed or something like that right?

Here's a question for you more mechanically inclined folks, is it better for bearings to run in a race rather than a flat plane?

 

[GatorFlash1]

Don't know of any productions off the top of my head, but I have folders from Alan Davis and Larry Withrow that each run on bearings. Both just use thumb studs and they are smooooooth. Especially the Davis.

Those are customs? So the purpose of the bearings on the flipper is to make the blade open faster or smoother? Is the flipper's purpose basically the same as a Spyderco spider hole, opens with both hands fairly quickly?

In the world of flippers who builds the tank model? I'd still like to hear some feedback from ZT about the reason behind those grooves.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1315241-Is-anyone-else-starting-to-hate-flippers

 

[Boris74]

I think someone needs to look up the term 'galling'.

I believe the correct classification is burnishing which is to be expected.

Next thing we know people will be complaining that their detent balls are carving a groove in the blade...

Galling



Google galling definition of you need words to explain it. But that's a pretty good visual representation. I bet if we had more detailed pics of it that it would be much easier to see.

 

[brandoak]

I will, and Ill post pictures of my mistake or efforts and the effects of placing pivot bearings in damascus liners as well, it just dont work.

I will go with the much ado about nothing, as we have seen from the bashers for years here at BF.

Glad you recognize this horrific flaw in the ZT0560 before thousands of people bought them and used them for cutting for several years.

Glad you know nothing about metals and design.

Seek the Chinese knife of your dreams.

Oh - and perhaps look up the term "work hardening". Read about "soft" titanium.

I am going back to the real world now.

best

mqqn

 

[kniferbro]

Well on the KVT system technically the race is the blue nylon the bearings sit in....so yes its better, it keeps them separate and aids in lubrication. What I think your referring to as a race is the horrible grooves cut by the bearings into the “race seat or pocket”..

*Notice the horrible groove cut by the bearings

 

[benchwarmer380]

From an engineering standpoint, it does seem like a design flaw albeit a minor one. I highly doubt anyone who owns this knife will encounter any issues caused by what the original poster mentioned.

I am far from an engineer so can't speak to that.

Myself and a lot of the gentleman here today have been here long enough to hear all sorts of complaints. From subjective nuances of fit and finish to actual flaws like severe blade play and poor heat treat. If it was such a catastrophe to claim disappointment in a new knife I'm sure there would be previous documentation. Unless I'm living in a worm hole and the ZT 560/561 just came out this week.

"All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again."

 

[benchwarmer380]

Galling



Google galling definition of you need words to explain it. But that's a pretty good visual representation. I bet if we had more detailed pics of it that it would be much easier to see.

For us who are physics inept.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnishing_(metal)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galling

From my uneducated perspective, galling is from friction and adhesion whereas burnishing is from friction and movement. Both cause wear .

It has been a long day and my reading comprehension may be suspect.

 

[kniferbro]

Galling



Google galling definition of you need words to explain it. But that's a pretty good visual representation. I bet if we had more detailed pics of it that it would be much easier to see.

The bearings will not and cannot ride that far from the pivot.

More like specs of dust man.

 

[ursamajor]

Glad you know nothing about metals and design.

Don't know how you came to that. Based on the design, he predicted that the bearings would groove the Ti. He was correct. And there is galling that develops, and will continue to do so, as the bearings wear deeper and deeper into the Ti, to the point that the race will make equal contact to the Ti as bearings do.

 

[bflying]

I like my pivots tight. Probably tighter than most. I hate blade play.

That is exactly what I was thinking. Probably tighter than the norm out there. And from the sound of it, probably worked harder than most with the same model. I would guess the average person would never see grooves like that even after decades of "ownership". IMO

 

[stabman]

While the knife is fine for everyday use among the masses and feels beefy in hand, no way I'm going to depend on it as a hard use knife, especially in the wild.

[video]http://vid730.photobucket.com/albums/ww305/stabman_album/5%20Toad%20adventure/Tree%20Fall_zpsdl1lnk3p.mp4[/video]

Oh yeah, it's still solid lock-up, and flips nicely.

 

[kniferbro]

That is exactly what I was thinking. Probably tighter than the norm out there. And from the sound of it, probably worked harder than most with the same model. I would guess the average person would never see grooves like that even after decades of "ownership". IMO

Lol... I don't run them that tight man. I still like my blade to be flippity floppity smooth... I'd bet others get these races eventually and definetly not after "decades of ownership"

PS - I'm on your side. I have worn races and my knife is perfect. That's what I was trying to show.