Discussion-Production vs. Custom

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bearthedog

Joined
May 17, 2006
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With so many great choices in this vast industry I wanted to open a discussion on what you guys think between production knives and custom knives for outdoor use. Call them bushcraft, survival, woodcraft, or camp knives. I like both and for most of us we have used prodution knives until we found the beauty of custom knives.



When I think of production knives I think of consistency and availability. There is often that felling of wishing you coul just wave a magic wand and get it without that one feature that may eat away at you. I am pretty sure we have all been down that road a time or two. This is when we explore the need to get it our way, like Burger King. Custom knives have their share of decisions that may not end with the perfect knife. We also don't get a chance to hold it and can almost never find reviews on our special fantasy knife. Still, there is something about emailing and talking with the maker of your creation, try this with a big production company!

Custom knives
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Production knives
Except the Fowler.
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I just got a cool semi custom bushcrafter today.
It is the Skookum Bush tool designed by wilderness authour Mors kochanski
and made by Rod Garcia. I very much like the knife other than some of the quirky stuff like having the lanyard hole(or holes on some knives) in the middle of the blade near the end and the strange wax diped leather sheath that has no belt loop but does have a weird tongue thing with 2 holes.

It is an A2/natural micarta model SBT with 1 lanyard hole.

My current general purpose bushcraft knife has been the incredibly good SS4 from Scrapyard with a very sharp
and very thin zero edge and stripped of it's coating in a Leatherface kydex sheath.
The only thing wrong with it is it is a little ugly and I am just a bit tired of it.
INFI is a fantastic bushcraft steel particularly because you can run a really thin edge and still baton with it. It is corrosion resistant without being stainless ,brittle or hard to sharpen and has great strength an toughness.

It will be interesting to see how the SBT stacks up. I may build my own Bushcraft knife this winter.

Here are 4 excellent bushcraft knives 3 are production knives.
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Top is the iconic Mora Clipper in the excellent Sandavic stainless.
Below it the SBT
Under the SBT is the Scrapyard SS4
Bottom is the new g10 handled SwampRat HCLE in the very hard CPM154 stainless.
The HCLE is the only knife with a secondary edge.

Personally i think a bushcraft knife is defined by it's use and it's intended use not it's edge or some features so the HCLE qualifies as a Bushcraft
It is actually surprising how very very close these knives are in size and shape.
I could also have included the Rosarms companion 2 but it was not quite the same profile
,has a secondary edge and is a bit smaller so i left it out.
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It is very sharp ,holds a great edge and is very well made of natural materials.
 
I love customs but they are becoming pricey...

That said, there are quite a few new guys on the scene who are still reasonable.

I prefer custom fixed blades whenever possible cos then they're in a good sheath right from the get go. Most production sheaths are sucky and because of my location, getting a sheath made is tricky.

I can't afford custom folders :(
 
I guess that having a custom made to your specs is exactly that... having something made exclusively for you with your desired blade shap, handle material and such. Maybe you do so because there isn't any production knives that suit you... or maybe because you want something made with dedicated attention... or maybe because you collect them and want something from a certain maker... whatever. For me, so far production knives suit me enough but I won't discard getting a custom one in the future just for the hell of it.
 
Customs are wonderful and if I ever have a choice between a production knife and a custom knife i will try to go custom. I find them to be well worth the extra cost, assuming there is any. Besides, with most knife makers these days you do not get a knife lacking in performance.
 
I like them both but it seems a custom for me is more likely to get used less and cherished more. I guess the thought behind that is with a production knife I can always get one just like it.
 
You've got a Bushcrafter Jr and a Nessmuk headed your way. I can't wait till you feel that Bushcrafter in your hand.
 
I would choose custom over production for the reasons above, and I have always been kinda anti-big corporation, and always try to support the little guy.

That being said, I am fond of RAT, bark river, Swiss Army, and a few other production companys.

I like the feeling of knowing what a bladesmith puts into their steel. They truely have a soul. The ability to have choices is a strong selling point to me, however, I try not to change custom makers models too much, and am always open to the makers suggestions, and allowing them their artistic freedoms.
 
It all depends on what I want at the time. I like the idea of being able to readily replace one of my Cold Steel Finn Bears or a Busse Sarsquatch (maybe a bit expensive), but I love the feel of Customs like my Fiddleback and I can't hardly stand the wait for my Charlie May.
 
I like the fact that I can email a maker with a drawing or idea and have it produced for me. I can decide on styles, finishes, handle material, sheathing, etc. A lot of good makers offer these services for the price you can buy a production knife for.

As much as I love the folks at Rat Cutlery, you can get a custom JK knife for about the same price as an RC4. Plus, I like to be a little different and not have the same thing everybody else has.

Custom for me.
 
I have some tried and true production knives-Kabar, F1, SAKs, a couple Benchmades, and a Kellum, but the overwhelming majority of my knives are customs. Many are influences from the OP of this thread!! He has good taste in knives...lol

And I agree with what Jake said wholeheartedly.
 
I personally don't think there is a lot of difference between a custom and production.

If the custom is truly a custom, meaning made to your specs then it can be a way better knife, personalized to your hand and needs.

If it is a "model" that a maker makes then IMO it's no different than a production. How good it is depends on how well the makers specs fit yours.

Also while some customs are super expensive it seems to me the average custom and the average production are moving closer in price all the time.

True when you buy a custom you are supporting the individual more, but on the other hand I think Bark River and Dan Kosters production knives are worthy of support also. They are small, responsive to consumer input and even on the parts they don't do they are using domestic services:thumbup:
 
I have had maybe 35-40 production knives including KABARS,RANGER KNIVES,BENCHMADES,COLD STEELS,SPYDERCOS,ONTARIO KNIVES,BECKERS,RATS,BUSSES-etc.I have sold almost all of them .Lately I am leaning toward customs.I like that I can draw a design and send it to a custom maker ,I can chose the steel,thickness,handle ,length .There are many custom makers that have very reasonable prices,good delivery time and they are very helpful in choosing the materials involved.I like that I can call a custom maker and explain what I want and ask his opinion . Many high and production knives are as expensive or even more expensive than customs so why pay so much for a production knife when you can have for the same price a good quality custom knife.If you check the Knife Maker's Forums ,there are many beautiful knives many times for less than a medium quality production knives,and most of the time custom makers have excellent warranty.I ALWAYS TRY TO SUPPORT THE LITTLE GUY.
 
For the outdoors, I have the following

Gossman WTK (A2) and PSK Sr (O1); Dozier Delta Traveler and Wilderness (D2 ;)); Harner hunter (D2); Farmer EDC (1095).

Bark River Northstar, mini Northstar; Swamp Rat Camp Tramp, Howling Rat, Swamp Warden.

Out of all of these, I have used the Farmer the most. It is a relatively inexpensive custom fixed blade, made especially for me my David Farmer. A search on here of Davids work can show his basic blade shape. It is pretty, but it is a work horse. That, and my Camp Tramp, are probably my favorite users. I don't have anything that is too pretty to use. I am waiting on an order for Gossman Kepharts next spring. I would like to get a Barkie Kephart after reading about it on here. Granted, I have way too many knives. But, the Farmer and the CT have worked just fine for me. 1095, and I surmise that SR101 is D2, work great for me. I can sharpen both, although neither need sharpening (Dave put a helluva edge on his Farmer, and Scott Gossman put a wicked edge on the CT).

For the most part, except for on my fathers property, I have done car camping. Played around with bushcrafting ideas and shelter making on my fathers property, and not all that much. Right now I'm hot for Kephart designs and tool steels, like D2 and A2. For the most part, the SAK in my pocket does a great job.

You can get great deals on customs, but really, my Moras work great too. IMHO, it's all psychological.

Every time I think I am done with productions and will save solely for customs, I see another production that comes down the pike. I guess you could say I'm 75/25 on customs/productions.
 
hollowdweller said:
I personally don't think there is a lot of difference between a custom and production.

If the custom is truly a custom, meaning made to your specs then it can be a way better knife, personalized to your hand and needs.

If it is a "model" that a maker makes then IMO it's no different than a production. How good it is depends on how well the makers specs fit yours.

Also while some customs are super expensive it seems to me the average custom and the average production are moving closer in price all the time.

True when you buy a custom you are supporting the individual more, but on the other hand I think Bark River and Dan Kosters production knives are worthy of support also. They are small, responsive to consumer input and even on the parts they don't do they are using domestic services:thumbup:
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I really couldn't say it better than that.

Most of my knives are from custom makers, but a model they came up with. Yeah I might of chose handle material, blade length, and sometimes handle shape, but its still their design. That said its nice knowing the knife was made for you, and it's rare someone else will have that same exact knife; so thats cool.
 
hollowdweller said:
If it is a "model" that a maker makes then IMO it's no different than a production. How good it is depends on how well the makers specs fit yours.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Lets use JK knives as an example. He seems to be a prominent maker here and the custom maker I have the most (albeit short) experience working with.

He has many 'base models' to start from. From there, you can choose blade thickness, profiles, handle options, blade length, handle length, handle materials (or lack thereof), hand pin/hole layout, lanyard options, sheathing color, sheathing style/attachment, add on sheathing (firesteels), etc. My first JK knife was a drawing that I took a picture of and sent it to him. He copied it, built it, and shipped it to me within a week. The options listed above are about as far from 'production' as you can get.

The only thing they have in common is blade steel. Most any production or custom maker offers knives in one blade steel. Some are venturing out and offer two, maybe three. Very few people offer more than two steels.

This is taking away nothing from the good production makers we have around, but saying they're the same is just not true.
 
First let me say that I'm with Hollowdweller on the definition. Even if a maker does one-offs, if you're buying a "model" you're buying a limited run production knife. It's no different than what the Busse family does. So define Busses as custom or custom-makers models as production, your choice. I'll limit my custom definition to knives made to a specific customers order.

For most of my needs, production knives work fine. I can't imagine the cost of a custom version of a Vic Rucksack or Outrider would be. IMO the production models work just great, and I couldn't get anything better for anything approaching a reasonable price.

I was searching for a dedicated bushcraft knife. I looked at the RAT RC-4, the Skookum, the BRKT Northstar, nothing struck me as perfect. The RC-4 wasn't out yet, and didn't look like it'd be great at drilling and such. The Skookum, well, the only real difference between it (and Mors Kochanski's idea bushcrafter) and my Jarvenpaa puukko, is the Jarvenpaa isn't full tang -- so it wasn't worth the cost. The Northstar looked great, but the handle looked too small and not shaped all that great. I was about to contact a custom maker, when someone (probably Bearthedog) posted a pic of the BRKT Aurora. It looked like a perfect match to what I had in my head. I bought it, and even going custom, I can't think of a way to improve on it, not even the sheath.

I'm pretty much looking for a custom skinning/game prep blade. I'm using an RC-3 right now, and it works fine, but isn't superb (plus I have a kit designed that uses it. It'll probably be one of my many kits that is a good idea but will never get used, but. . .it belongs there). I haven't found a production knife that seems "perfect". The one knife that looks perfect in profile is that big-arsed Hudson Bay knife (I think it's Koster's "Monster Nessie") that's floating around. I'm thinking of seeing about that pattern knife in about a 5" length. That would be perfect.

Filet knife? Can't think of a way to improve on my Rappala.

Now, my Big Chopper is a custom. It's a 20" Himalayan Imports Ang Khola. But, I asked for it to be a bit "pointier" than normal with a little more distal taper towards the tip. I also asked for it to be no less than 3.5 pounds. Maybe it might not be considered a full-on custom as it's based on a model, but it required drawings be sent, so I consider ti custom. It does everything I could hope it would do and more. No matter how many more kukris, swords, 24" "Bowie" knives I bought, it's still the best.

So, IMO, I like the small shops and custom makers when necessary. You get what you want, you get superb customer service and good response to requests (just look at the RAT Cutlery board -- a little bit of whining and a few weeks later they have prototypes made and put it in the pipeline. Try that with a big company). Another good one is Himalayan Imports. Say "Hey it'd be nice if we could have. . ." A couple months later she's got a run of 5 of them for sale. If they aren't what the requester had in mind, they go on sale for cheap, and a couple months later there's a run of the modified design. Only other way to get that kind of service is go to a full-blown custom maker.

Oh, and on price. From the prices I've seen, most of the custom makers on this board aren't what I'd call expensive, either.
 
TFin04 said:
I disagree. Lets use JK knives as an example. He seems to be a prominent maker here and the custom maker I have the most (albeit short) experience working with.

He has many 'base models' to start from. From there, you can choose blade thickness, profiles, handle options, blade length, handle length, handle materials (or lack thereof), hand pin/hole layout, lanyard options, sheathing color, sheathing style/attachment, add on sheathing (firesteels), etc. My first JK knife was a drawing that I took a picture of and sent it to him. He copied it, built it, and shipped it to me within a week. The options listed above are about as far from 'production' as you can get.

The only thing they have in common is blade steel. Most any production or custom maker offers knives in one blade steel. Some are venturing out and offer two, maybe three. Very few people offer more than two steels.

This is taking away nothing from the good production makers we have around, but saying they're the same is just not true.
Click to expand...

Can't speak for HD, but this is not what I was talking about. I meant guys that have models -- maybe a couple handle material options, maybe 1 or two choices of steel. But the dimensions and configuration don't change. I call those limited run production knives.

IMO even if they are based on a model, if you can change dimensions and such, I'd consider it a custom.

Also, just because some custom guys offer limited run production models does not mean I think less of their work. It's just a matter or differentiating a true custom (again that I define as customer specified dimensions and such). Just about any custom is going to be based on a model, either one of the maker's models, or a model the customer has seen but wants slightly different.

Hope that was clear.
 
I'd say TFin04's criteria I would call semi custom.

Still Bark River offers difft scales pins and even handle shapes. For instance Mike Stewart did a small run of Northstars with contoured handles.
 
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