Disgusting - anthrax delivery thru Reno Post Office

I am more than a little surprised to find myself a hawk in this. I was pretty dead set against our involvement during the Gulf War. Frankly, I didn't think our objective were practical enough, and I didn't see a need for the US to eveolve into a global police force.

But, here we are, and now I am convinced that we have exactly two choices. We can deal with this now - and that means taking the gloves off and killing people in mass numbers until the population in the Middle East yells Uncle, or , we can deal with tommorrow after the terrorist have had a chance to build up a nice nuclear arsenal. There is no room left for passive negotiation.

This population regards the US as a malignant growth. Not only are they not interested in what we might have to say or give, they are actively refusing to give us a chance to speak. Our very existence is a threat to their savage midieval empire. We are living proof that there are alternative ways to live - and they just can't deal with that.

Now I may be a little slow. But, you don't have to kick me many times before I get the message. And as of today I have been kicked enough! If you thinks there is a chance for a passive resolution then by all means get on a plane and go talk to these people. But, be forewarned, they will probably shoot you on sight. Open your eyes and look at the world the Taliban wants to create. It's clear that there is no room for us there.

When a dog goes rabid you have to put it down, and these folks are completely raving mad.

n2s
 
Elmer Keith once told the story of a bank robber who held up a whistle stop town's bank and tried to board the train before the robbery was discovered. He was spotted on the platform and chased back to his second story hotel room. The hotel was evacuated and when he didn't surrender, well ventillated ( he was incidentally also permanently ventillated ).

---------------------

We had our only bank robbery in the History of Hawthorne, Nevada, about a dozen years ago. He held it up the morning of the twice-monthly law and motion day.

He walked out with his loot, walked a hundred feet to the traffic signal and changed his mind, walked back to the back, only to find the door locked on him. He then pounded on the door, was let in, surrendered the booty, and was having a cup of coffee with the branch manager when the cops came to haul him off.

Turned out there wasn't much on the court docket that day, the judge, da, public defender were all in town and the guy waived all his rights. Guess what was first on the agenda after lunch. He pled, was sentenced, and an off-duty deputy called in to drive him up to the state prison while they were filling out the forms. I believe he was in prison ( couple of hours drive ) in time for dinner.

I don't believe anyone remembered to call the FBI til after he was already in the state pen.
 
Rusty -

That has to be a prime example of reasonable justice (I might have let him go, after all the trouble he went to to get back in - or at least thought about it). As a counterpoint to what we've been ranting (I admit to raving) about, different criminal folks deserve different strokes. In some fundamentalist countries, a thief is punished by the loss of a hand, even one stealing food for his family. Our reaction to the loss of 7,000 lives is called barbaric by some of the same people. Those in our own camp decrying our actions are mostly those who have never had to cope with life outside our admittedly posh society. It is sad to see, but it would be even sadder to see them thrown to the same wolves for whom they express sympathy. Our flock does indeed need some fierce old sheepdogs around to remind them of how quickly they can drop down a link or three on the food chain.
 
Originally posted by Arvind
Btw, Harry, I would agree with you on that, but would also add people like the ones involved in the backlash to the WTC attacks who killed Sikhs, Arabs, Pakistanis all because they looked like either Taliban or like Arabs.

Arvind
Click to expand...

And I would agree with you too, Arvind.
 
Another good wild west story, Rusty, and thanks.

Howard, I agree. This is not a bad thread but a good one. It's a way of tossing things out on the table and see what happens.

Of some interest, perhaps, is that I've received a few phone calls regarding this thread. Nobody asked me to delete, amend, change directions, but only to continue on which I'm going to do. I remember saying to one caller even a terrorist can have his voice here. We believe in free speech in this country and I'll defend it to the death. But I can't guarantee what sort of welcome a terrorist would have here.
 
I just got back from a 12 hour day at work and I'm sorry to have missed so much of this topic! I'm with the "original posse" on this one...KILL EM' ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love to sit back and watch my buddy Yvsa "Hog wrap", cut their eyelids off and tie them all to trees and watch them SUFFER!!!! Just like them made us suffer! And I would love to see how my Ang khola holds it's edge when I slowly chop up Osama bin Ladins body!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Terroism must end now and it is up to us to do it and we must show no mercy!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: NO MERCY!!!! NO MERCY!!!!!!:mad: :mad: THATS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:
 
Ya gotta learn to stop pussyfootin', take a deep breath and say what you mean. I still like the "Little Piggies". Then,Yvsa can have 'em.
 
We are all blowing off steam and as wise old Howard said all of us are wiser than any of us. Full steam ahead.
 
This must stop at what ever the cost! We MUST win this fight and we can not be "kind" about it! And to all the "give peace a chance" folks I'm sorry to say but if you were running the country we would be the laughing stock of the planet! And we would have long since been taken over by Terror!!! Thank the good Lord for fighters!
 
Originally posted by Arvind
You make a good point Yvsa, however, I respectfully beg to differ in that would beheading an enemy be considered torture considering that that your enemy died instantly? In Moghal times, the torture typically used to convert Sikhs to Islam was either to cut them apart joint by joint or by cutting their babies apart and forcing Sikh women to wear the bones of their babies as grotesque necklaces.

Arvind
Click to expand...

I agree that it's not torture in the sense that the enemy died swiftly, but I can see how their bunk mates may have suffered torture, just one of those different world view outlooks, from it but there's no doubt in my mind of the terror their bunk mates must have felt.

And like I titled one of my posts in this thread, "First of all no one is going to be tortured that we know about."
And I suppose that somewhere deep down inside of me that I wouldn't want to see torture done, But I also know that the capability to do such a thing lives within me.
Not something that I'm particularly proud of, but then not particularly ashamed of it either.
I had to personally learn many years ago to bring my opposite within myself and learn to love and respect that part of my being or wind up killing someone in a very horrendous way.
It wasn't easy to chain the beast...And I truly doubt that the beast could ever be tamed.
 
If the news about the mailing source is true, then I am truly ashamed right now. If we ever find the b*stard who did this was a local, we are gonna hogtie and FedEx him over to NY with a sign that says: "Terrorist A$$hole Coward - please terminate creatively"

Andrew Limsk
 
I've stated elsewhere, I'm a pragmatist, not a pacifist. I do believe that on the very rare occasion, fighting is the best answer.

I do not believe that this is the case, here.

I fear retribution. I don't think people have taken a good long pause, and asked themselves whether men willing to die in the cause of terrorist attacks will react to open hostilities by surrendering. It seems to me that this is less like spearing the heart of a foe, and more like prodding a rattlesnake with a rather short stick.

I seriously doubt that Anthrax-laced envelopes are among the most fearsome weapons available to terrorist forces. And I am confidant that this "war on terrorism" will be met with a concerted terrorist assault against the US and allied nations.

I feel we've missed our best chance at freedom from terrorism, by giving Osama Bin Laden a war which he surely plotted from the beginning.
 
I'm off to bed for the night but I will be back to let of some more steam later! I think I will dream about kicking Osama bin Ladins a$$ all over the country untill he lands in Yvsa back yard and then it's tag team time!!!!:D Good night ya'll!
 
Thank you, Rust, for very valued input. I believe you are a brave and decent man to make your stand.

But, I have a word of advice which may be difficult to accept but quite valuable. Please consider it.

When I was young I had a great fear of death -- and other things. It was a long journey with many twists and curves but I finally was able to conquer those fears and it was the beginning of a new life for me. Born again!! And a much better life it was.

Do not fear retrubution or anything else. It clouds your thinking and will destroy your life.

"When a man learns how to die so will he learn how to live"

Tibetan Book of the Dead.
 
Rust,

What makes you think these guys will stop?

Do you think they are happy with 7,000 dead Americans? Perhaps they want to make it an even 10,000, 100,000, or 1,000,000; they probably just want all of us dead. Yes, there will be further attacks if we act, and there will also be further attacks if we don't act. We are only beginning to understand what we are up against. Sooner or later we will learn; and at that point terrorisim will end.

It is unlikely we will ever catch Bin Laden. On the other hand once you kill off 100,000 a week in Afganistan it won't take very long for the population to understand that "this terrorist gig is not a good thing". Just a few moments after that realization takes hold Bin Laden's head will become someones lawn ornament. We might never know what happened to this guy - but he and his friends will be gone just the same.

n2s
 
Awright, I'll stop trying to justify and explain myself and my beliefs. I get the distinct feeling that it's becoming cyclical, and will do no good to anyone here.
 
This isn't a war against Bin Laden or against his organization or even a war against all terrorists -- it's a war against terrorism. It's going to go on for years. We're going to win it, eventually. I see a parallel with the war against piracy in the 18th century.

Then, too, the civilized nations of the world finally got fed up and decided to put an end to it, to make the effort whatever it took.... Then, too, the main strategy was to deprive the enemy of bases and funding. There were nations that harbored pirates, allowed them to have bases, safe harbors where they recruited and trained crews and staged their operations from and returned to when they were chased. Pirates raised money from investors to fund their operations ... they bribed governments to harbor them.... There really are a lot of parallels. I hope somebody in Washington is studying the history of that conflict now....

People are upset right now. It's natural to talk about what we'd like to do to the terrorists if we could; it probably does us good to talk about that.... There are some things that disturb me, though. I've been following the news at www.cnn.com and they title a whole section of the website now "Retaliation." Retaliation is not what it's all about -- mere retaliation would not win this war! Getting Bin Laden, getting the whole damn organization and killing them all, torturing them to death if you want -- would not be victory! We have to end terrorism -- that's what this war is all about -- not mere retaliation from us and retaliation for that from the enemy and an endless cycle of retaliations to retaliations -- that wouldn't be victory! That's what we've been doing up until now and that's what led us to where we are now and now we've decided to end it.

We can do it. We will do it, the same way we ended piracy less than 200 years ago. The time will come -- soon -- when terrorists have no safe bases, when no nation will harbor terrorists any more than they would harbor pirates nowdays -- when terrorists can't raise any money, they won't have any more access to money than any working stiff, they won't have any access to weapons or explosives or other equipment, to passports or other papers, to training, they won't even have any opportunity to get together with other terrorists and work and plan together.

Even truck bombs have a lot of organization behind them. You see in the news about a fanatic driving a truck full of explosives up to a building and blowing it up -- that wasn't just one fanatic; that was an organization that propagandized thousands of ignorant people for years to produce one fanatic willing to die for it, and the organization provided him with the explosives and the truck and the plan so he knew where to go and what to do. There may always be a few fanatics in the world, but the average fanatic is pretty ineffectual. He's likely to blow himself up fooling with explosives; he doesn't know anything about explosives. If he succeeds in building a bomb he still has to figure out where to blow it up, and how to get past whatever security measures are in place at his chosen target, which he knows nothing about. Lone lunatics try that now and then; you read about them in the news ... they usually don't succeed in killing a single person -- the bomb they build is too small (they have no idea how much explosive it takes), it often doesn't go off at all; they don't know much about detonators, or it goes off too soon or too late ... the average nutcase just isn't very competent, not at anything. If he decides to assassinate someone he can get hold of a gun, but he doesn't know how to aim; they often only wound their target or miss him completely ... Squeaky Fromme didn't even know enough to cock her gun before she tried to shoot it. I'm not promising a perfect world; I'm not promising there will never be another act of terrorism after we've won this war -- but I'm promising no more terrorist organizations -- they will vanish from the face of the Earth.

I'm getting sleepy and I'm afraid my thoughts are not very coherent, at least not the way I'm writing them down.... The main point I want to make is this is not about retaliation; this is not about returning hate for hate -- it's about ending it. It's not inappropriate for a Buddhist or contrary to ahimsa; it's ahimsa in action. Ahimsa is harmlessness. Letting people be killed is not ahimsa. If a Buddhist sees a poisonous snake about to bite a child he doesn't say, well, I'm not supposed to kill -- he stomps on the snake! Without hating the snake, preferably, but if he finds himself hating the snake, well, he'll work on that ... after he stomps it. Saving the child comes first; he can work on his attitudes toward snakes later....

Killing just one snake isn't enough, though. We have to eradicate all poisonous snakes from the playground. We're not going to go on retaliating against snakes when they kill people and forgetting about them until the next time -- we have had enough of that. We are going to end it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top