DLT Bark River Magnacut Santoku

I'm still at a loss because apparently two separate tempering ranges can be used to highlight different attributes, one at the expense of corrosion resistance (at least to some degree).

Does the knife exhibit the other attribute? And why aren't we seeing this from other makers? Is Bark River the only company trying to achieve the other attribute (toughness?) at the cost of decreased corrosion resistance? Doubtful.

It seems evident that Bark River wouldn't be capable of even understanding that discussion and trade-off.
 
At this price point you can get a nice reputable kitchen knife. Most of us use kitchen knives more often than other types of knives. We use them to make meals with family and friends. Other people are likely to see and use them.

The knife in the OP is an embarrassment. The profile, the grind, the shaping and finish on the handle all scream beginner hack maker. This brings into question what you can't see, the actual type of steel and the heat treatment.

DLT's response to this is equally amazing. Can you imagine a chef reporting a problem to a restaurant supply company and being sent a tube of Flitz?!
 
J. Doyle said:
I'm still at a loss because apparently two separate tempering ranges can be used to highlight different attributes, one at the expense of corrosion resistance (at least to some degree).

Does the knife exhibit the other attribute? And why aren't we seeing this from other makers? Is Bark River the only company trying to achieve the other attribute (toughness?) at the cost of decreased corrosion resistance? Doubtful.

It seems evident that Bark River wouldn't be capable of even understanding that discussion and trade-off.
Click to expand...
The high temper doesn’t improve toughness, usually it reduces toughness somewhat. The main reason to use it is so that overheating the steel is more difficult in processing. It can be heated up to 900F or so in grinding rather than 300F.
 
Still haven’t received Flitz from DLT but found some in my garage. Used a miracle sponge and polished it. Did two rounds and took a fresh sponge each time. No patina anymore…
dExMd4y.jpeg
unEDZF8.jpeg

Let’s see what happens in 10 minutes…

jioF6Ud.jpeg
BA8utQh.jpeg

To be continued…

Anyone know how chemically Flitz is? How bad is it to handle?
 
GeofS said:
Still haven’t received Flitz from DLT but found some in my garage. Used a miracle sponge and polished it. Did two rounds and took a fresh sponge each time. No patina anymore…
dExMd4y.jpeg
unEDZF8.jpeg

Let’s see what happens in 10 minutes…

jioF6Ud.jpeg
BA8utQh.jpeg

To be continued…

Anyone know how chemically Flitz is? How bad is it to handle?
Click to expand...
Really curious to see what will happen
 
I removed the lemon slices after 15 minutes. It doesn’t appear to have stained…
5XbNOTk.jpeg


Still, I waited another 15 minutes allowing the lemon juice to dry, then I wiped it off with a damp paper towel. The Flitzed seemed to have worked…

KYGHTuv.jpeg


Back with some other knives…

Q6vXShD.jpeg


Some not so final thoughts:

First, thank you to everyone here that offered guidance, support, or insight. It was all greatly appreciated!

Next, this whole ordeal was f&cking stupid! Bark River sucks! The way DLT communicated and handled this sucks! They both should be ashamed. I won’t forget any of it.

Should more patina start showing, I won’t be quiet about it and I’ll share it here. I’m looking forward to using it on a roast again and will document it. That will have to wait though, have a minor but unpleasant surgical procedure that’ll put me out of commission for a few days later this week.

Finally, here’s the roast from 9-10-24 that was the catalyst for this thread. I should have shared this at the beginning…

zCEGy7s.jpeg


It was tasty!
 
Since there are people that are still questioning the claim of leftover particles affecting corrosion resistance I will provide some extra context. I am not saying that heat treatment or other factors are not involved, simply providing more information on this part of the concern over corrosion resistance.

One thing that I often see repeated is that they are worried about steel particles left over from grinding other steels. That would indeed be worse. But even particles left from the same steel are still bad for corrosion. Ground particles are very small, and a lot of them oxidize (sparks). Any free iron particles will make corrosion happen more easily. They act as high surface area initiation sites. There is a very common practice called "passivation" which uses a weak acid, usually nitric or citric acid, to remove free iron particles. Passivation happens with stainless steel spontaneously; stainless steel exposed to oxygen forms a passive chromium oxide layer at the surface which is what prevents rust. However, free iron particles prevent this from happening which is why the acid treatment is called "passivation." There are a lot of articles online where you can read about passivation.

Earlier in the thread I said I couldn't say for sure if free iron particles would lead to patina rather than rust. Several people opined in the thread that free particles would lead to obvious points where rust formed rather than patina. I don't know for sure if that is true. The free iron particles would presumably be very small, since the bigger ones should have been removed in cleaning. But as I said I haven't done experiments in this area and I may not have the knowledge to do so effectively. I am not a corrosion expert.

Passivation is not common among knife companies. I have never heard of any companies doing it though that doesn't mean none are. I would be curious to hear about any that have done it or at least tried it. Knife steels are not generally known as being very corrosion resistant so maybe even the weak acid could give potential issues like a patina forming during the process.
 
What is Flitz?

Is it leaving a film on the surface?

Was there a slurry grit washed/rinsed off afterwards?

Is Larrin saying it might of passivated the blade? And made it ok now?

I've used Barkeepers Friend on rougher, crude blades to clean them up, but I wasn't expecting Flitz to prevent future patinas? Will it?
 
Just curious if any other ‘stainless’ steels have been affected in the same way by foreign particles from grinding belts. I’ve never heard of it before, thought I admit I’m nowhere near as knowledgeable on anything metallurgical as many others here.
 
Let's assume that it's true that it's due to them not changing grinding belts.

OK. They still said they were aware of the issue. So people complained about it before and yet - nothing was done about it to this day. At this price range.
Same goes for for DLT.

What are they selling? 500$ DIY project or finished product?

At this price user wouldn't have to do shit to get what he paid for - which is an actual stainless knife that won't patina on first use.

Or they should categorize it as DIY project and ship it together with flitz tubes...
 
Crag the Brewer said:
What is Flitz?

Is it leaving a film on the surface?

Was there a slurry grit washed/rinsed off afterwards?

Is Larrin saying it might of passivated the blade? And made it ok now?

I've used Barkeepers Friend on rougher, crude blades to clean them up, but I wasn't expecting Flitz to prevent future patinas? Will it?
Click to expand...
Yes, Flitz left a film on the surface that wouldn’t rinse off with water. I had to use paper towels to get it off, then a 3m pad with Palmolive. Also, it isn’t gritty.
 
Crag the Brewer said:
What is Flitz?

Is it leaving a film on the surface?
Click to expand...
Flitz is just aluminum oxide polishing compound, just like what you'd use on your car. In fact, Flitz has been making automotive polishing compound for what, 40 years now.......Its the same thing.
Does it leave anything on the blade? Probably. Some Flitz products contain a paste wax. The wax will put a barrier between the steel and anything that will cause it to oxidize, but it won't actually stop the steel from oxidizing. Renwax will do the same thing.
If the Flitz is just leaving a protective layer of wax on the blade, this in no way changes the fact that the OPs knife oxidized or why it did so. Magnacut shouldn't need it, and using Flitz as an "I told you so" band-aid just makes those involved seem even more culpable. You can do the same thing with 1095 and a good application of carnauba wax......
 
Arathol said:
Flitz is just aluminum oxide polishing compound, just like what you'd use on your car. In fact, Flitz has been making automotive polishing compound for what, 40 years now.......Its the same thing.
Does it leave anything on the blade? Probably. Some Flitz products contain a paste wax. The wax will put a barrier between the steel and anything that will cause it to oxidize, but it won't actually stop the steel from oxidizing. Renwax will do the same thing.
If the Flitz is just leaving a protective layer of wax on the blade, this in no way changes the fact that the OPs knife oxidized or why it did so. Magnacut shouldn't need it, and using Flitz as an "I told you so" band-aid just makes those involved seem even more culpable. You can do the same thing with 1095 and a good application of carnauba wax......
Click to expand...

Thanks....that's what I thought. It's going to come back.
It's not a solution, it is a bandaid.
Sorry OP.
 
GeofS said:
I removed the lemon slices after 15 minutes. It doesn’t appear to have stained…
5XbNOTk.jpeg


Still, I waited another 15 minutes allowing the lemon juice to dry, then I wiped it off with a damp paper towel. The Flitzed seemed to have worked…

KYGHTuv.jpeg


Back with some other knives…

Q6vXShD.jpeg


Some not so final thoughts:

First, thank you to everyone here that offered guidance, support, or insight. It was all greatly appreciated!

Next, this whole ordeal was f&cking stupid! Bark River sucks! The way DLT communicated and handled this sucks! They both should be ashamed. I won’t forget any of it.

Should more patina start showing, I won’t be quiet about it and I’ll share it here. I’m looking forward to using it on a roast again and will document it. That will have to wait though, have a minor but unpleasant surgical procedure that’ll put me out of commission for a few days later this week.

Finally, here’s the roast from 9-10-24 that was the catalyst for this thread. I should have shared this at the beginning…

zCEGy7s.jpeg


It was tasty!
Click to expand...
Roast looks good! 🤩

Carry on...
 
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